MIG wrote:

On Feb 15, 11:11�pm, Mizter T wrote:
On 15 Feb, 21:35, MIG wrote:

On Feb 15, 9:19 pm, Mizter T wrote:

MIG wrote:

Why oh why oh why won't they just sell reasonably-priced extension
tickets to people who can show a paper ticket/travelcard for part of
the journey? The punishment cash fares for not using Oyster won't
teach them any kind of lesson apart from not to use the Underground.

The whole point of the pricey paper ticket fares is, as you well know,
to move people off paper tickets and onto Oyster. Offering "reasonably-
priced extension tickets" to those with paper Travelcards is hardly
compatible with that aim.

If you do wish to avoid Oyster then one way making Tube journeys
beyond your Travelcard's zones is to buy a zones 2-6 Day Travelcard -
this costs £4.80 off-peak (i.e. after 0930). This is obviously cheaper
than buying 2 x £3 single extension fares on paper tickets (the £3
fare would cover all Tube journeys except those beyond zone 6 on the
Met line).

I do however quite disagree with your notions about the "punishment
cash fares" - I think that charging the 'max cash fare' does indeed
strongly get across the message that one needs to touch-in and out for
each and every journey. It's a bit harsh but I'd suggest it is
effective. I've had it happen to me - I was indeed annoyed when I
realised it had happened, but since then I've always been careful to
touch-in and out. I've heard similar stories from others, and it
hasn't led them to be despondent about the Oyster system as a whole

I think it's worth acknowledging the difference between being punished
for not touching in/out and being punished for renewing a travelcard
in south london on the day when the Oyster machine is broken (or there
isn't one).

I'm not quite sure where this broken Oyster machine might be, as it
can't be at a south London railway station as they don't exist at
these stations, primarily because you can't use Oyster PAYG on rail
routes in south London.

Unless of course it is the one at Lewisham you're referring to - where
there is indeed a single machine, presumably for the primary benefit
of DLR passengers who wish to top up their Oyster PAYG, though of
course of significant secondary benefit to those who want season
Travelcards on Oyster. If that is the one then yes, I have indeed
noticed that it gets sick more than any others - perhaps simply
because, whilst under cover, it is effectively outdoors...


I have used that one at times. Also, having intended to use it, had
to get a paper travelcard (you can't really suggest leaving the
station, which has no adjacent shops, looking for an Oyster Stop,
rather than just going to the counter for a paper one).


I suppose I wouldn't rely on that one machine being working, and would
instead get it from an Oyster Ticket Stop elsewhere en route to the
station. I might also try and buy a Travelcard in advance (e.g. to
start 'tomorrow') using that machine, and if I failed to do so because
the machine was knackered then I would purchase it elsewhere (e.g. at
a Tube station at the other end of my journey).


In the last few weeks I was there and the counters had just started
dealing in Oyster. I haven't bought anything at Lewisham since then
though. On the day I saw notices informing people of it, the whole
lot was closed.


I hadn't noticed that the ticket office at Lewisham had started to
deal with Oyster, nor did I know they were planning to, but I'm very
glad to hear that it now does - I wonder if Greenwich station does too
now?

Perhaps Southeastern became aware of just how much custom they were
losing at Lewisham from people buying their Travelcards on Oyster from
the machine there, perhaps by comparing like for like sales over the
past few years, or maybe simply through observation of how busy the
machine was (in particular with people who then headed towards the
mainline platforms, as opposed to the DLR).



OK, well I have a number of solutions for someone in this boat.

The solutions involve assuming in advance that the machine won't work
(in this case). There's something not quite right about that.


Machines break, so as I said above I wouldn't rely on it working all
the time. However, if I bought my Travelcard in advance then I could
well make use of it - and if it didn't work then I would work around
that.


(three alternative methods of purchase snipped)

All the above methods require a bit of advance planning - though with
the third method you can benefit from a reminder email which is
helpful. I understand that not everyone is always that organised - I'm
certainly capable of fantastic/absurd feats of disorganisation -
however, these methods are are there if people want to make use of
them

I do understand that there are ways in which someone in South London
who knows what days they need a travelcard for in future could get it
put on their Oyster in advance.

I just don't see why going to a station from which you are starting a
journey, in order to get or renew a ticket for that journey, requires
any level of disorganisation or should be treated with contempt.

There are reasons why people find themselves in possession of a paper
travelcard. I don't think there's any moral justification for the
hassles they then face if they then need to do something like go one
zone extra on LU one day. It's not like they pay any less for it.



I agree that it is somewhat absurd that the station from which you
start your journey cannot sell you a ticket in the format that you
want it on. However, if one is making a regular commute then things
are predictable and thus one can work around this without an immense
amount of effort - one could suggest that if one wants Oyster then the
station ticket office has just been moved to the corner shop that's
just up the road from the station.

I know people who don't have a regular commute- instead it varies
widely (wildly in fact) all over London - but they manage to buy the
season Travelcards they need OK with a trip to the newsagent. A bit of
a faff, but ultimately worth it for the hassle that one subsequently
avoid when they travel outside their Travelcard's zones on the
increasing number of PAYG routes. I just feel you're making mountains
out of a molehills - big, annoying molehills - but they are not an
insurmountable issue.

Of course when the TOCs eventually get real and agree to accept PAYG
across all their route in London then their ticket offices, and
hopefully at least some of their ticket machines, will also manage to
sell both PAYG top-ups and Travelcards on Oyster. It will happen.
Eventually. Then I'll be able to buy my season Travelcards from the
helpful staff at my local station.