London Banter - View Single Post

Robin May · November 16th 03, 01:44 AM posted to uk.transport.london

(Mait001) wrote the following in:

People demonstrate in the UK because the UK government makes laws
and they have no control over it. They can vote, but even if a
significant proportion of the population share their views they
won't have these views represented in parliament because of the
nature of the political system.

But, if we go by your definition of control (which seems to
basically be having a vote) then you actually do have control over
the EU. You can vote for a member of the European Parliament and
you can also vote in the UK. Your vote in the UK can help decide
what our government decides to do in Europe.

If a majority in the U.K. vote in a certain way, they can change
the Government of the U.K.

Not true. A majority of the UK can vote in a certain way and still not
see their choice of government elected.

Small scale example.

Constituency 1 Labour
100% vote Labour

Constituency 2 Labour
100% vote Labour

Constituency 3 Conservative
51% vote Conservative
49% vote Labour

Constituency 4 Conservative
51% vote Conservative
49% vote Labour

Constituency 5 Conservative
51% vote Conservative
49% vote Labour

In total
Labour : 69.4% of the vote, 2 seats, 40% of seats
Conservative : 30.6% of the vote, 3 seats, 60% of seats

Not only can this happen, it actually has happened.

If 100% of the British electorate voted in a certain way at the
European Parliamentary election, it would have only a minimal
impact on the European Parliament, because there are 14 other
countries whose M.E.P.s make up the majority in that Parliament.

So? This is only what happens in the UK but on a larger scale. If 100%
of people in London voted a certain way in a UK General election, they
would still not necessarily have any control over who formed the
government.

We have no control whatsoever over them, and there is nothing we
could do to change the overall majority in the European Parliament
- ever.

Well, we're in a minority aren't we? So it's only right and fair that
we have no control over them. (This response is based on your own
reasoning with regard to people in the UK whose political beliefs are
not mainstream enough to have a significant influence at elections.)

Similarly, some voters here who don't agree with the main political
parties have no hope of ever electing the government they desire. And
yet somehow that's really good and fair and they certainly shouldn't
demonstrate to get their point across using one of the only means of
political expression available to them (or at least that's what you
say).

It is analagous to saying that, at the next Election in the U.K.,
only those in the Home Counties can vote - but no-one else; those
making up the majority of the Country could keep their M.P.s as
previously elected and those voting in the Home Counties would
have as much chance of changing the Government as a cat in Hell.

How on earth is it analogous to that? It'd be very closely analogous to
that if the rest of the UK voted too. See, this is why your point of
view doesn't make sense. Your very reason for opposing the EU is
something that happens in every election here or anywhere else: one
group of people on their own cannot control what happens in the
election.

And the Commission is made up of second-rate clapped out
politicians, only some of whom are not corrupt.

Much like the House of Commons really.

Your vote in the UK can help decide what our government
decides to do in Europe.

Now you really are living in fantasyland.

No, just seeing things from your bizarre point of view.

You say that a person's vote in a UK election is their means of
expressing their opinion, and yet the UK's share of the votes in a
European election is somehow to small to matter. What a bizarre and
nonsensical contradiction. It really shocks me that someone so
completely incapable of logical thought, and with such an internally
inconsistent point of view has managed to succeed in the world.

--
message by Robin May, but you can call me Mr Smith.
Hello. I'm one of those "roaring fascists of the left wing".

Then and than are different words!