On 18 Dec, 16:52, Robert wrote:

On 2008-12-18 13:27:27 +0000, Mizter T said:

On 18 Dec, 11:11, Robert wrote:

(much snipping)

This could be adopted for all sorts of other transactions. even
ruggedised to work on buses. The buses in Munich are fitted with coin
operated ticket issuing machines and I have never yet found one that
hasn't worked.

Do they issue change?

I don't know if all of them do. The buses on my local route were run by
a bus company on the edge of Munich which took part in the transport
co-operative, but ran routes further out into the country. These
machines did give change, as long as the 'change' side of the machine
had any money in it. If not then it defaulted to exact fare only. In
the centre the machines on buses run by the MVG (the city run bus, tram
and U-bahn organisation) looked to be slightly different. I never used
one as I had my inner-city season ticket for such journeys so I don't
know if they gave change. The next time I go there I'll have a look.


Thanks for the details. Despite taking an interest in matters
transportational, I invariably manage to miss or look straight through
loads of such things when when I'm visiting somewhere else.


I am not familiar with this 'Oyster' thing, so I have no experience of
the reduced dwell times. If dwell times do cause a significant cost,
then the dwell time can be reduced to zero (i.e., excess time above
that required for getting on and off) by bringing back the conductor.....

Oyster has basically been revolutionary on London's buses. Dwell times
have been greatly reduced, as hardly anyone pays cash on board any
more - I'm serious, it is very rare to find people actually buying a
ticket from the driver (and when they do it's quick as there's a flat
cash fare of £2). Reduced dwell times means faster and more reliable
journeys, leading to a more reliable service that is far more
attractive to passengers - in essence buses are faster and more
frequent.
Snipped
It's a great system, and really does make a difference to bus travel.

Regarding conductors - it is simply very expensive to put conductors
on buses, and where smartcard ticketing exists it would be an
unjustifiable luxury.

Thank you for the explanation - I didn't realise that it was a flat
fare system.

Flat fares on buses, yes (not on the Tube, as I mentioned). Other
smartcard systems elsewhere in the world work do however work on a tap-
in and tap-out policy, which means that the fares don't have to be
flat. This could I suppose be implemented in London but it would be a
hassle after everyone having got used to flat-fares - the alternative
of having to tell the driver what fare you want before having your
card validated as appropriate would be a massively retrograde step and
recreate a situation similar to the slow pay-as-you-board days of old.
These days people just touch-in on the machine next to the driver as
they board - all the driver needs to do is verify that everyone is
doing just that. (And on bendy buses passengers can board by any door
as there are Oyster scanners next to all three - roving teams of
inspectors travel on bendy buses doing random ticket checks.)

One thing I didn't mention is the daily capping system. On buses this
is simple - each journey costs 90p, but the cost of travelling by bus
in any one day (i.e. 0430 to 0429) is capped at £3 - so in other words
your fourth bus journey will cost you 30p, and your fifth and any
beyond that are 'free'. This capping system also applies to using the
Tube - and indeed the Tube *and* buses - but it does get rather more
complicated as both the time of travel and in the case of the Tube the
zones travelled through all affect the price cap that gets applied.
That said, so long as you always touch-in and touch-out on the Tube
(and the few rail services that accept Oyster pay-as-you-go) then the
cheapest daily price cap will be applied automatically.