On 19 Dec, 01:44, wrote:
Thank you again. Whenever I go to London I use a One Day Travelcard
Get an Oyster. If you happen to make fewer journeys than the price of
a ODT, you save. If you make more, it's capped anyway. It spares you
having to decide in advance which zones you want, and you don't need
to queue to get it.
In situations such as Robert's using Oyster PAYG is not necessarily
cheaper than an 'out-boundary' Day Travelcard, but it could be. I
shall elaborate...
The things where a travelcard is bundled into a day return (which
Chiltern have done for a while, but Virgin now seem to do as well) are
marginal: they're six zone, which is good if you're going to use it
but less good value if you aren't. And I'm never entirely sure
(perhaps someone could comment) on if they include buses.
(As has already been confirmed out-boundary Travelcards are valid on
buses - indeed these days any Travelcard *regardless of zones* is
valid on any red London bus anywhere in Greater London and sometimes
just beyond too, i.e. zones don't matter on buses any more.)
The bundled Travelcard plus day return is known in internal fares
lingo as an 'out-boundary' Day Travelcard - that is a Travelcard
issued outside the boundary of the London zones - and is, as you say,
a Travelcard bundled with a day return. And it's by no means just a
Chiltern (or indeed Virgin) thing.
The Off-peak version of this ticket has existed since the mid/late
80's and was a Network SouthEast innovation. The Peak version was
introduced far more recently
(and in line with the fares simplification is now known as the Anytime
Day Travelcard). Both versions are available from any station in the
former NSE area, and intercity TOCs such as Virgin also make them
available from start points further afield.
The way NSE priced (off-peak) out-boundary Day Travelcards meant they
didn't cost a great deal more than the cost of a CDR to London - i.e.
the premium for the Travelcard bit wasn't much. Since privatisation,
TOCs have adopted a more market based approach and that can mean that
an out-boundary Day Travelcard can cost rather more - i.e. the premium
for the Travelcard bit over the OPDR is greater. (Off-peak Day Return
aka OPDR being a CDR in new money of course.)
Nonetheless it's still quite possible that an out-boundary Day
Travelcard will be cheaper than buying a OPDR and then using Oyster
PAYG within London - the critical thing being how much travelling
around London one is planning on doing (i.e. how many Tube and bus
journeys).
One quick thing to note is that out-boundary *Day* Travelcards are
only available in zones 1-6 flavour (season Travelcards are however
different - you can for example get a Banbury to zones 456 season,
though not a Banbury to zones 123 season - if you wanted that you'd
have to get Banbury to zones 123456).
Back to day fares - looking at Reading to London (which is the journey
I think Robert makes):
-----
OPDR - £14.20 (with Railcard £9.40)
Day Travelcard - £18.90 (with Railcard £12.50)
-----
So (without a Railcard) the premium for a Travelcard is £4.70. One
needs to weigh this up against what one would pay using Oyster PAYG -
a single zone 1 Tube journey being £1.50 (at any time), a single bus
journey being 90p. So if all a passenger was doing was making two zone
1 Tube journeys, or a few bus journeys, then they'd be better off with
Oyster.
The off-peak Oyster PAYG price cap for journeys in zones 1 and 2 is
£4.80, and the cap for bus journeys only is £3 - so actually if you
weren't sure what you was doing but knew you would be staying within
zones 1&2 then using Oyster PAYG might well save you money, and would
at most cost you just 10p more than the out-boundary Day Travelcard.
With a Railcard then the premium for a Travelcard is £3.10 - it's
probably easier for most Railcard holders to get this. However, just
to spice things up, holders of all Railcards *apart from Network
Railcards* can actually take advantage of a discounted Oyster PAYG
daily capping rates - though Railcard holders need to actually go to a
Tube ticket office and activate their Oyster card to take advantage of
this [1].
If they were to do this then the Railcard-discounted Oyster PAYG off-
peak cap for journeys in zones 1&2 is just £3.10 - this is, as you can
see, exactly the same as the premium paid for an out-boundary Day
Travelcard.
So whether it's cheaper to just buy an out-boundary Day Travelcard or
instead get a normal return to London and then use Oyster PAYG depends
on a number of factors...
-----
(1) What the difference between an OPDR and an outboundary Travelcard
actually is - this varies between TOCs.
(2) Whether one is planning on just travelling within zones 1&2 or
further afield - if the latter then the out-boundary Travelcard will
almost certainly be better value.
(3) How many journeys one is planning on doing - if just a couple of
Tube trips then Oyster PAYG will probably be better cheaper.
(4) Again if one is just travelling on buses then Oyster PAYG will
probably be cheaper with its daily bus-only cap of just £3.
(5) Whether one is planning on travelling on National Rail services
within London south of the river (for example to Greenwich), as Oyster
PAYG is not yet valid on these routes [2] - if so then an out-boundary
Travelcard should be purchased.
(6) Whether one holds a Network Railcard - for whatever reason the
discounted Oyster PAYG daily capping rates are not available for
Network Railcards, so an out-boundary Travelcard is likely to be the
best choice (unless you're just making a couple of bus journeys).
-----
In Robert's case he could possibly end up saving a little bit of money
but it depends what Railcard he holds. If it is a Senior Railcard then
(a) if he ever goes to London and only travels by bus or only makes
say one Tube and one bus journey, and (b) can be bothered to get the
Railcard discount loaded on an Oyster card, then he might save a
little cash, though to be honest it is so marginal I wouldn't get very
excited about it!
Anyway, sorry I've made this all sound very complicated, I was only
intending on writing a short post as well! Well there you go - that's
a fairly comprehensive run down of all the various factors that come
in to play here.
-----
[1] See page 20 of the TfL fares and tickets guide for more info on
Railcard discounted daily price caps (PDF):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...s-zones1-6.pdf
(note that this is the 2008 version - fares go up a bit in January)
[2] This map shows which National Rail routes in London accept Oyster
PAYG (PDF):
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...onal-rail..pdf