On 24 Dec, 01:06, Charles Ellson wrote:

On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:44:49 -0800 (PST), Chris

(snip)

It is your responsibility to use the correct ticket, isn't
it?....Engage brain on getting off the train!

What happens if the Oyster card is "touched out" near enough
immediately at the same station ?


Eh? Do you mean what happens if the Oyster card is 'touched' a second
time shortly after the first 'touch'?
(This 'touching' terminology might be good for issuing basic usage
instructions, but it becomes ever more absurd when used in a more
advanced manner to describe various scenarios!)

In essence, if one is *leaving* via a ticket gate then the first touch
will be regarded by the system as 'touching out', and the system will
presume one did not touch-in as one should and will thus levy the
punitive charge (£4, apart from London termini stations where it is
£5, and Heathrow where it will apparently be £8).

If one were to 'touch' on a standalone Oyster reader, for example by a
manual gate, then if the card has not been 'touched-in' within the
past 2 1/2 hours the system will presume that one is starting a new
journey and will debit the full £4/£5/£8 'entry charge' - the concept
being that the appropriate amount is refunded back to one's card when
one completes the journey and touches-out so one will have paid the
correct fare.

If one was to validate on a standalone reader for the first then even
if they were ending their journey they would end up paying the
'penalty' charge because they will not touch-out in the next 2 1/2
hours - this is a so-called "unresolved journey" - and this would
still occur if one were to then almost immediately (or indeed within
the next 2 1/2 hours) use the same Oyster card to enter the
Underground or board a bus, because when one 'touched-in' at the
Underground gates or on the bus in neither instance would that
'resolve' the earlier unfinished journey.

If one were to go through the gate and hence touch-in and almost
immediately go back out through the gate and hence touch-out, one
would still be charged for a journey - though I think one would only
be charged for the cheapest journey from that station (I have done
this at an Underground station and this is what I remember happening).
Bear in mind that if the system were configured to refund the fare in
its entirety if one went in and then straight back out the gates this
would just be a fare dodgers charter if they were heading to an
ungated destination station (and were also working on the basis that
they would avoid any human ticket checks by RPIs or guards ) - they
would enter through the gate and hence touch-in, then touch-out as if
to exit back through the gate but actually turn back around, leaving
the gate open, and go and get on their train having paid and intending
to pay nothing.

The same principle applies to standalone Oyster readers - if all a
second touch on them did was to nullify the fist one, then all people
would do would be to double touch on them the whole time. What's more
with this people could claim ignorance as their defence and say they
had gone back for a second touch because they weren't sure whether it
worked the first time around.