On 20 Jan, 00:48, Andy wrote:

On Jan 19, 11:17*pm, Mizter T wrote:

On 19 Jan, 22:00, Andy wrote:

On Jan 19, 9:44*pm, Mizter T wrote:

(snip)

I think that Chiltern would only need the cash for the provision of
the DMUs and staff, I don't think it is suggested that it'll be
another Evergreen project with Chiltern building the infrastructure as
well. TfL might even be able to supply the DMUs, as I imagine that the
Gospel Oak - Barking line will have been electrified before we see the
link built.

Re my comments on the "Chiltern cash angle" - my reading of Andrew
Heenan's post was that he was indeed seeming to suggest that Chiltern
might be tempted to actually front up some cash for the infrastructure
project itself - i.e. as a kind of Project Evergreen spin-off (or
should that be shoot-off!). But as I'm not Mr Heenan I can't know for
sure what he really meant!

Re the class 172 DMUs that are headed for the GOBLIN - actually these
are to be conventionally owned by a Rosco, Angel Trains, so as and
when London Overground don't need them any more then they'll be back
on the market I would think.

But I understood that the lease involves TfL as well as LOROL, so if
they are no longer needed on GOBLIN, TfL can retain them for other
uses, should they wish. LOROL are different from the other TOCs, as
they run the service with the stock that TfL provides (even if via a
ROSCO).

I think you might be getting things jumbled up with the new class 378
'Capitalstar' trains (for use on the electrified parts of the LO
network). Originally TfL was going to buy these outright, but instead
they negotiated a leasing deal with a new outfit called QW Rail
Leasing Ltd that would appear to have been set up for just this
purpose (well I guess they might have intentions on getting into the
rolling stock market and competing with the Roscos but there's been no
indication of that yet) - this deal was signed in February '08, and is
between TfL (not LOROL) and QW Rail Leasing Ltd - see:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...hive/7525.aspx

Meanwhile the class 172s are to be leased from Angel Trains under the
conventional Rosco model, and the contract in this case is between
LOROL and Angel - see:
http://www.angeltrains.co.uk/press/release.aspx?Id=692

I think it may have been the case that TfL were planning on getting
more involved in the latter deal, but it seems they decided to take a
back seat on that because of the possibility of the GOBLIN getting
electrified (not much point in them having a stake in diesel trains
then!).


But it's hard to imagine the GOBLIN getting electrified any time soon
- that said I find it hard to imagine the Croxley Link happening any
time soon either.

I think it will all depend on the DfT electrification program, as and
when this happens. It is one of the most obvious routes for
diversionary purposes (see below)


Fare enough, perhaps I'm being rather too cynical...


Anyway don't think anyone's got any money for stuff like this at the
moment... unless that ghost of Keynes who's been hovering around
somewhat lately starts visiting Brown & co in their dreams in
earnest...

The DfT seem to have magiced £54 millon extra for the four tracking at
Camden Road from somewhere

The NLL upgrade was agreed a while back before the Treasury realised
that the dour and miserly bankers at RBS has taken magic mushrooms
before making their investment decisions. Also the NLL upgrade around
Camden was reduced in scope anyway, when it was realised that some of
the works would cost too much.

The £54 million I mentioned is the reinstallation of the original plan
at Camden, over and above the TfL funded works. There was some
discussion about this at the time and it will be phase II of the NLL
capacity works, after the Olympics.

See the press release he

http://nds.coi.gov.uk/environment/fu...eID=385423&New....

Blimey - I completely missed all this! I was still on the page where
the Camden Road works had been 'de-scoped' because they were to be too
expensive - looking back that was in September, so things had
obviously moved on by late November. That's great news! (Indeed is it
possible that the initial de-scoping announcement was made in
expectation of an upcoming announcement on phase 2 of the works?
Perhaps the DfT ministers had to go and do a bit more begging and
kneeling at the Treasury before they were ready to ok this...)

Of course the government might change colour between now and then, but
one would hope that regardless of that the future occupants of
Marshall Street and the Exchequer will see that there's a lot of sense
in this plan.


If this work does go ahead, then I could see Network Rail electrifying
the Gospel Oak - Barking line as a diversionary route before this
happens, if they can get the funding together. This electrification
could then be a test bed for the new techniques that they are planning
to reduce costs. I do recall mention that TfL were trying to get the
£54million diverted to electrification anyway.

Very interesting thoughts. Regarding your last point - you mean TfL
were/are trying to get the £54 million the DfT is seemingly willing to
spend on phase 2 of the Camden Rd works diverted to electrify the
GOBLIN? (If so then in other words they would be seeing that as a
greater priority than the NLL four-tracking through Camden.)


If there is any money emanating from the DfT any time soon then I
would very much hope it is for making phase 2 of the East London Line
Extension happen - apparently the funding gap is £15 million, which is
not a great deal in the grand scheme of things with regards to rail
projects. But time is running out - I think the costings all revolve
around the current ELLX construction venture continuing on to build
phase 2. I think it would cost significantly more to set it all up
again from a cold start.

I don't disagree with this.


Such an 'easy win' for that amount of money... tick... tock... get on
with it DfT!