On Jan 20, 9:31*pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
Andy wrote:
On Jan 20, 8:15 pm, "Paul Scott"
wrote:
Mr Thant wrote:
This is what Peter Field had to say to the Transport Committee in
November (which is the only official mention of 165s I know of):

snipped

.... They will relieve the situation in the
shorter term before the new trains arrive, which will be to the
London Overground standard, as you know, with lots and lots of
capacity, a much longer vehicle."

Which implies they'll be replacing the whole fleet.

(and I take it to mean that we'll be waiting a very long time for
the 172s)

http://www.london.gov.uk/assembly/tr...minutes/append....

It seems to suggest that the 172s:

" will be to the London Overground standard, as you know, with lots
and lots of capacity, a much longer vehicle."

However most previous reports on the 172s for Goblin have said
they'll have a fairly normal internal layout, ie unlike the 378s, so
that the Rosco will have no trouble moving them on elsewhere
eventually. As for 'much longer', AFAICS the choices are 20m or 23m
within normal UK gauge...

The 23m 165s (89 + 94 = 183 per unit plus one toilet) have about an
extra 20-odd seats per coach compared to the current 20m 150/1s (71 +
73 = 144 plus one toilet), but existing Turbostar layouts (168 and
170) have less seats (highest I can find in a driving coach is 67
seats) than the 150/1s. The 172s will also be 23m units, but it'll be
interesting to see if they can fit as many seats in as the 165s, will
the narrower vehicles (2.75m compared to 2.82) mean that you can't do
3+2 seating?

Maybe, in the end, it will turn out that Chiltern will release 165s to
LOROL and take all the 172s. I think that for a substantial capacity
increase, the GOBLIN trains need to be 3 car units (current turbostar
center coaches are 76 seats).

I don't disagree with any of that - I'm disagreeing with the quote that the
'new trains' (ie the LO 172s) will be to 'Overground standards' (by which I
take it he's implying longitudinal seats and loads of standing room like the
378s)...


Assuming that the seat fixings are arranged correctly, changing from
longitudinal to 'normal' seating or vice-versa would not be too hard.
The leasco could order them as 2+2 and LOROL then pay to 'refit' them
as a variation order, with the normal seats stored until needed. After
all, cross-country have been doing something similar (although only
with normal seat layouts) with reseating their 170s. This is one of
the advantages of the modern units, they allow easy interior redesign.