--
Mike D

Mizter T wrote

[original thread on uk.railway][x-posted to uk.transport.london]


On 13 Feb, 22:57, "Peter Smyth" wrote:

There used to be a documented concession that the cross London
ticket
was valid for one trip to/from any pair of stations but this (the
documentation) seems to have been removed.

The "How To Cross London" page in the NR Timetable says

A break of journey is permitted at an intermediate Underground
station,
but a further ticket must be purchased in order to continue the
journey.

This is interesting - I was always under the impression that cross-
London transfer by Tube with a Maltese cross marked ticket was only
valid between stations on that list.

The now out-of-date NFM98 (which was valid until May '08) had this to
say on the matter on page A4 [1]:

---quote---
Travel via London
Ticket prices in Section C, for journeys routed for travel ’via
London’ and marked with the symbol † [Maltese cross], include the cost
of transfer across London by London Underground, DLR or First Capital
Connect train services on the Thameslink route. Tickets displaying the
’cross-London’ marker † [Maltese cross], are valid for travel between
any two of the following stations appropriate to the route of the
through rail journey being made.
[List of stations follows...]
---/quote---

It doesn't mention anything about bailing out of the Underground
network at another point - failure to mention it doesn't of course
mean that it's prohibited, but it doesn't mean it's allowed either.

Then as you say there's the information in the National Rail
Timetable
(eNRT) as provided by Network Rail [2], specifically this bit on page
42:

---quote---
Ticket & Fares
Rail tickets for journeys routed via London are valid for transfer by
London Underground or First Capital Connect services between London
terminal stations, and other designated interchange stations*
appropriate to the route of the through journey being made, at no
extra cost. For example [examples snipped]

(*NB. check which cross London routes your ticket is valid before you
travel. A break of journey is permitted
at an intermediate Underground station, but a further ticket must be
purchased in order to continue the journey)
---/quote---


That's reiterated by what is said on the National Rail "Travelling to
and via London" webpage [3]:
---quote---
You can 'break your journey' and leave the Underground service en
route. However, you'll need to buy another ticket in order to continue
your journey.
---/quote---

I wonder if London Underground are even aware of this! I imagine that
ATOC (well specifically RSP) pays a lump sum of money each month/
quarter/ year/ whatever for this cross-London transfer facility and
I'd be interested to know what the terms of that actually are. tim's
comments above certainly seem to back-up my notion that Maltese cross-
London tickets are only accepted by LU gates at stations on the list.
Do LU know that the National Rail interpretation on things is that
'transfer passengers' can indeed get out at Oxford Circus if they want
to - or has NR (i.e. ATOC) just unilaterally decided upon this
interpretation? Hmm.

The idea that these Maltese cross-London tickets are actually good
for
a journey to many parts of the Underground network - and look at the
station list to see what I mean (it includes 'far flung' places like
Upminster, Ealing Broadway, Wimbledon, Balham, Lewisham, Walthamstow
etc) - is rather in contradiction to what this scheme is intended to
facilitate, i.e. the cross-London transfer of rail passengers by Tube/
DLR.

When this last came up IIRC someone pointed out the limitations of the
mag stripe technology on these and cash fare tickets.

So if your through journey involved transfer from "London Terminals" to
Kings Cross and an ordinary zone 1 was issued then the gates would
swallow it on exit at Oxford Circus in the ordinary course of things.
Hence " you'll need to buy another ticket in order to continue your
journey." Of course Kings Cross was and officially may still be a OOSI
(Out of Station Interchange) so the barriers there would return your
ticket, say to continue your journey by Circle to Liverpool Street.

I think that when I have been issued a "Maltese Cross" interchange
ticket it has also had printed on it the zones it was valid for.

Given the possibilities listed a interchange ticket for a journey to
Southend might need to be valid for zone 6 (Upminster) and to Harlow
for zone 4 (Tottenham Hale) but it is not necessary for all interchange
tickets to be so valid. However the Tube fare structure has been so
flattened that issuing them all as Z1-6 wouldn't cost much and moreover
in every case the extra distance on tube is an alternative to NR, not
an extra.

--
Mike D