On May 7, 7:49*am, asdf wrote:
On Tue, 5 May 2009 16:17:40 -0700 (PDT), D DB 90001 wrote:
Surely they are not expecting passengers to validate oysters in the
middle of the journy?!!!! It's complicated enough at interchange
stations about whether you need to touch in or out, making it
compulsory to validate the oyster in the middle of a journey where
there are no barriers would be even more confusing. Surely if you
touch in at Wimbledon and out at Heathrow the system would be
configured so that a greater journey time was allowed to take account
of the doubling back. Why should it be up to the passenger to take
responsiblity for it when it could be automated. I seriously doubt
that there would be a mandatory oyster validation requirement for
passengers mid-journey. That's non-sensical.

From Paul C's informative post, it appears that the reason for the
software upgrade at stations like Rayners Lane is to allow passengers
to get a cheaper fare by taking a longer route avoiding Zone 1, rather
than anything to do with variable time limits.

This would still involve validation mid-journey, of course.

This still leaves a few unexplained stations on the list (Mile End,
Earl's Court, Bond Street, etc), but perhaps a few extra ones were
just included for testing purposes.

From what I understand of the concept the intermediate validators
would only be located on "natural" interchange routes at logical
interchanges where people can legitimately change to avoid entering
Zone 1 or by validating they would indicate they have taken a route
that would be priced to avoid Zone 1. I have seen nothing that
indicates enforced validation by making people get off trains or
anything like that. Providing the facility gives people the option to
select a lower fare when the "normal" price is set via Zone 1 - the
PAYG system being is modified to hold more than one fare for origin
and destination pairs and the intermediate validation record is the
means of triggering the lower fare. I have read nothing that
indicates that Zone 1 pricing will become a default position thus
requiring extra validation nor have I read anything about mid point
validation except where people switch from LUL to NR (see below).

Earls Court is a zonal boundary point so is a valid turnback point for
some journeys in West London that might be priced via Notting Hill
Gate and yet people may opt to go via Olympia or Hammersmith. An
example might be Fulham Broadway to Shepherds Bush Central. The
highest frequency route would be via NHG but is in Zone 1. Clearly
there are lower frequency routes via West Brompton or even via Earls
Ct and Olympia or via Hammersmith. Being able to record you are going
via Zone 2 only is beneficial. Please note these are my own ramblings
and not an official example.

Mile End is a turn back point in Zone 2 between Central and District
lines so has some merit in being on the list. Bond Street I can't
fathom in terms of anything clever about pricing or journey time
limits.

The variable time limit is all to do with Oyster Extension Permits
being recorded on Oyster cards upon exit from the LUL system where
people can change on to NR trains. The acceptance of the permit at the
NR side of the interchange would mean one through journey was being
charged as well as permitting a much longer total journey time to
reflect longer journey times and potentially longer waits due to lower
frequency NR services.

I suspect none of the above will stop the rampant speculative
capabilities of utl but one can try!

--
Paul C
via Google