The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

I live in Richmond and take the District Line into Central London
about once a week. Sometimes I change trains at Turnham Green to go to
Ealing Broadway. When I am at Turnham Green, I have noticed that the
tracks make strange noises when either a Piccadilly or a District
train is approaching. No matter how fast the incoming train is
traveling, the tracks twang, rattle and vibrate like huge springs are
being snapped back and forth. Once the train has passed by, the sound
continues until the train is well away from the platform.

I have not heard this anywhere else on the Underground except at
Turnham Green and some of the stations east of it (the tracks at Earls
Court and Victoria make the sound, but it's much more faint than at
Turnham Green). Does anyone have a clue as to what I'm hearing?

Brad Chapman

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

Brad Chapman:
When I am at Turnham Green, I have noticed that the tracks make
strange noises when either a Piccadilly or a District train is
approaching [or leaving]. ... the tracks twang, rattle and vibrate
like huge springs are being snapped back and forth.

Does anyone have a clue as to what I'm hearing?

On some parts of the Toronto subway system, oversize concrete sleepers
are used. These are so wide that they form almost a continuous sheet
of concrete with only small gaps between them, and although the rail
fastenings are spaced as usual, each rail is fastened to each sleeper
in two places. I have heard that between these sleepers and another
layer of concrete underneath, there is some sort of rubber; I don't
know in what form exactly. And this track makes sounds very much like
Brad's description, except that I would have omitted the word "rattle".

So do the tracks around Turnham Green *look* any different than on
other parts of the Underground, these days? It's been some years since
I was there.
--
Mark Brader "Never re-invent the wheel unnecessarily;
Toronto yours may have corners."
-- Henry Spencer

My text in this article is in the public domain.

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

Mark Brader wrote:
Brad Chapman:
When I am at Turnham Green, I have noticed that the tracks make
strange noises when either a Piccadilly or a District train is
approaching [or leaving]. ... the tracks twang, rattle and vibrate
like huge springs are being snapped back and forth.

Does anyone have a clue as to what I'm hearing?

On some parts of the Toronto subway system, oversize concrete sleepers
are used. These are so wide that they form almost a continuous sheet
of concrete with only small gaps between them, and although the rail
fastenings are spaced as usual, each rail is fastened to each sleeper
in two places. I have heard that between these sleepers and another
layer of concrete underneath, there is some sort of rubber; I don't
know in what form exactly. And this track makes sounds very much like
Brad's description, except that I would have omitted the word
"rattle".

So do the tracks around Turnham Green *look* any different than on
other parts of the Underground, these days? It's been some years
since I was there.

They are normal LU bullhead rail on wooden sleepers. I'm familiar with the
noise (it's my local station), but I've never regarded it as abnormal. I
think you'll find it occurs at any location in the open with a stretch of
plain line (no points). I can't think of another station where I hear a
similar noise, but that might just be because the other stations where I
wait for trains are either in tunnel or where there are points which would
prevent the sound being transmitted from a distance.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

"Richard J." wrote the following in:


They are normal LU bullhead rail on wooden sleepers. I'm familiar
with the noise (it's my local station), but I've never regarded it
as abnormal. I think you'll find it occurs at any location in the
open with a stretch of plain line (no points). I can't think of
another station where I hear a similar noise, but that might just
be because the other stations where I wait for trains are either
in tunnel or where there are points which would prevent the sound
being transmitted from a distance.

I remember hearing a similar noise at Plaistow when I was young. I
don't tend to notice it any more because I'm used to it now, but I'm
sure it still happens.

--
message by Robin May, but you can call me Mr Smith.
Hello. I'm one of those "roaring fascists of the left wing".

Then and than are different words!

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

I think I used to hear the same noise further along the Picadilly Line at
Northfields.
My guess is that long stretches of track in the open air can develop a 3D
vibration and the noise is a natural harmonic of the length of rail.
The steel is, I guess, less beefy than the heavy rail tracks that don't make
the same sort of noise.
It's a funny boinging, jittering noise isn't it?


"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
om...
I live in Richmond and take the District Line into Central London
about once a week. Sometimes I change trains at Turnham Green to go to
Ealing Broadway. When I am at Turnham Green, I have noticed that the
tracks make strange noises when either a Piccadilly or a District
train is approaching. No matter how fast the incoming train is
traveling, the tracks twang, rattle and vibrate like huge springs are
being snapped back and forth. Once the train has passed by, the sound
continues until the train is well away from the platform.

I have not heard this anywhere else on the Underground except at
Turnham Green and some of the stations east of it (the tracks at Earls
Court and Victoria make the sound, but it's much more faint than at
Turnham Green). Does anyone have a clue as to what I'm hearing?

Brad Chapman

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

Railgrinder machine has been there, perhaps?

--
regards, Pre38
-------------------------------------------------------------------
See you at the Live London Transport Channel
http://www.centaur.plus.com or on IRC
irc://undernet/uklondontransport

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

I have not heard this anywhere else on the Underground except at
Turnham Green

Listen carefully and you'll hear it at just about any over-ground tube
station where there is a log stretch of unbroken rail (ie. no
points/crossovers). I've heard it on just about every Piccadilly,
District and Central line open-air station I've ever used. And IME the
faster the train is going the more pronounced the noise. Clearly what
is happening is that the vibration of the train is setting up a
resonance in the rail, which will travel some way ahead of (and behind)
the train. The sound is there, but IME less pronounced, at sub-surface
stations -- probably because the rails are held more tightly on the
concrete sleepers/floors so the resonance is better damped compared with
over-ground sleepers and ballast. Also listen carefully and I think
you'll find the sound is also Doppler shifted.

*Keith*
(remove 00 to reply)

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

"Keith Marshall" wrote in message

I have not heard this anywhere else on the Underground except at
Turnham Green

Listen carefully and you'll hear it at just about any over-ground tube
station where there is a log stretch of unbroken rail (ie. no
points/crossovers). I've heard it on just about every Piccadilly,
District and Central line open-air station I've ever used. And IME
the faster the train is going the more pronounced the noise. Clearly
what is happening is that the vibration of the train is setting up a
resonance in the rail, which will travel some way ahead of (and
behind) the train. The sound is there, but IME less pronounced, at
sub-surface stations -- probably because the rails are held more
tightly on the concrete sleepers/floors so the resonance is better
damped compared with over-ground sleepers and ballast. Also listen
carefully and I think you'll find the sound is also Doppler shifted.

Presumably the sound seems louder because the Piccadilly Line trains are
normally non-stopping and running through the station relatively fast. There
aren't many other stations with Tube trains passing through at speed.

I also wondered if the steel girder bridge immediately to the west of the
station plays any part in the noise?

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

"Nigel Pendse" writes:

Presumably the sound seems louder because the Piccadilly Line trains are
normally non-stopping and running through the station relatively fast. There
aren't many other stations with Tube trains passing through at speed.

Jubilee Line between Wembley and Finchley Rd (IIRC the noise from Met
Line trains is the same).

I also wondered if the steel girder bridge immediately to the west of the
station plays any part in the noise?

It probably gives the Turnham Green sound a unique aspect.

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

jasonr (Jason Rumney) @ f2s.com wrote in message

"Nigel Pendse" writes:

Presumably the sound seems louder because the Piccadilly Line trains
are normally non-stopping and running through the station relatively
fast. There aren't many other stations with Tube trains passing
through at speed.

Jubilee Line between Wembley and Finchley Rd (IIRC the noise from Met
Line trains is the same).

I meant Tube in the specific sense of LU's trains for deep bore tunnels. I
think sub-surface LU stock (A, C or D stock) do make a different sound,
presumably because they're a bit heavier and also move differently on their
(softer?) suspensions. The firmer suspensions of Tube stocks probably excite
different resonances.

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

"Nigel Pendse" writes:

I meant Tube in the specific sense of LU's trains for deep bore tunnels. I
think sub-surface LU stock (A, C or D stock) do make a different sound,
presumably because they're a bit heavier and also move differently on their
(softer?) suspensions. The firmer suspensions of Tube stocks probably excite
different resonances.

It is a long time since I was on that stretch of Jubilee Line, so you
might be right. District line trains make roughly the same noise as
Picadilly approaching the station though. OTOH, I can definitely hear
the difference between District line trains and North London line
trains at Gunnersbury.

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

jasonr (Jason Rumney) @ f2s.com wrote:
"Nigel Pendse" writes:

I meant Tube in the specific sense of LU's trains for deep
bore tunnels. I think sub-surface LU stock (A, C or D
stock) do make a different sound, presumably because
they're a bit heavier and also move differently on their
(softer?) suspensions. The firmer suspensions of Tube
stocks probably excite different resonances.

It is a long time since I was on that stretch of Jubilee
Line, so you
might be right. District line trains make roughly the same
noise as
Picadilly approaching the station though. OTOH, I can
definitely hear
the difference between District line trains and North
London line
trains at Gunnersbury.

Perhaps someone should release a "Best Of" album?

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
jasonr (Jason Rumney) @ f2s.com wrote:
"Nigel Pendse" writes:

I meant Tube in the specific sense of LU's trains for deep
bore tunnels. I think sub-surface LU stock (A, C or D
stock) do make a different sound, presumably because
they're a bit heavier and also move differently on their
(softer?) suspensions. The firmer suspensions of Tube
stocks probably excite different resonances.

It is a long time since I was on that stretch of Jubilee
Line, so you
might be right. District line trains make roughly the same
noise as
Picadilly approaching the station though. OTOH, I can
definitely hear
the difference between District line trains and North
London line
trains at Gunnersbury.

Perhaps someone should release a "Best Of" album?

Please, not even in jest...
--
Cheers, Steve.
If The Good Lord had meant for us to be fiscally prudent, He would not have
given us the platinum credit card...
Change colour to PC Plod's lights to reply.

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

"Nick" wrote in message ...
I think I used to hear the same noise further along the Picadilly Line at
Northfields.
My guess is that long stretches of track in the open air can develop a 3D
vibration and the noise is a natural harmonic of the length of rail.
The steel is, I guess, less beefy than the heavy rail tracks that don't make
the same sort of noise.
It's a funny boinging, jittering noise isn't it?


That's right. The tracks at Turnham Green are relatively free of
points on the eastern side, but on the western side there are points
where the Richmond spur of the District Line splits off. The
Piccadilly Line is free of points, so you can hear the twanging from
either direction. It's certainly the best reason I've heard so far.

And it does sound like a jittery, bonging sound to me; exactly like a
huge spring is being twanged back and forth in a small space. At least
now I know that I'm not going crazy or anything..... ;-)

Brad Chapman

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
om...
I live in Richmond and take the District Line into Central London
about once a week. Sometimes I change trains at Turnham Green to go to
Ealing Broadway. When I am at Turnham Green, I have noticed that the
tracks make strange noises when either a Piccadilly or a District
train is approaching. No matter how fast the incoming train is
traveling, the tracks twang, rattle and vibrate like huge springs are
being snapped back and forth. Once the train has passed by, the sound
continues until the train is well away from the platform.

I have not heard this anywhere else on the Underground except at
Turnham Green and some of the stations east of it (the tracks at Earls
Court and Victoria make the sound, but it's much more faint than at
Turnham Green). Does anyone have a clue as to what I'm hearing?

We get the same effect at Hassocks on the Brighton line. It is vibration of
the conductor rail. You can tell because it starts when the conductor rail
switches into the centre as the train nears the station, and stops when it
switches back to the outside beyond the station.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org
E-mail:
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

"Terry Harper" wrote in message

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
om...
I live in Richmond and take the District Line into Central London
about once a week. Sometimes I change trains at Turnham Green to go
to Ealing Broadway. When I am at Turnham Green, I have noticed that
the tracks make strange noises when either a Piccadilly or a District
train is approaching. No matter how fast the incoming train is
traveling, the tracks twang, rattle and vibrate like huge springs are
being snapped back and forth. Once the train has passed by, the sound
continues until the train is well away from the platform.

I have not heard this anywhere else on the Underground except at
Turnham Green and some of the stations east of it (the tracks at
Earls Court and Victoria make the sound, but it's much more faint
than at Turnham Green). Does anyone have a clue as to what I'm
hearing?

We get the same effect at Hassocks on the Brighton line. It is
vibration of the conductor rail. You can tell because it starts when
the conductor rail switches into the centre as the train nears the
station, and stops when it switches back to the outside beyond the
station.

But at Turnham Green it starts well before the outside conductor rail
switches position. Of course, with a fourth rail system, the centre
conductor rail stays in the same place through stations, so maybe that's why
it starts early and stays singing longer on LU. Presumably the conductor
rails are much less rigidly mounted than the running rails?

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

"Nigel Pendse" wrote in message
...
"Terry Harper" wrote in message

"TheOneKEA" wrote in message
om...
I live in Richmond and take the District Line into Central London
about once a week. Sometimes I change trains at Turnham Green to go
to Ealing Broadway. When I am at Turnham Green, I have noticed that
the tracks make strange noises when either a Piccadilly or a District
train is approaching. No matter how fast the incoming train is
traveling, the tracks twang, rattle and vibrate like huge springs are
being snapped back and forth. Once the train has passed by, the sound
continues until the train is well away from the platform.

I have not heard this anywhere else on the Underground except at
Turnham Green and some of the stations east of it (the tracks at
Earls Court and Victoria make the sound, but it's much more faint
than at Turnham Green). Does anyone have a clue as to what I'm
hearing?

We get the same effect at Hassocks on the Brighton line. It is
vibration of the conductor rail. You can tell because it starts when
the conductor rail switches into the centre as the train nears the
station, and stops when it switches back to the outside beyond the
station.

But at Turnham Green it starts well before the outside conductor rail
switches position. Of course, with a fourth rail system, the centre
conductor rail stays in the same place through stations, so maybe that's
why
it starts early and stays singing longer on LU. Presumably the conductor
rails are much less rigidly mounted than the running rails?


I always thought this was the collector shoes on the conductor rails: the
bongs when the shoes came off the ends and hit the starts of the conductor
rails.

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

We get the same effect at Hassocks on the Brighton line. It is
vibration of the conductor rail.
But at Turnham Green it starts well before the outside conductor rail
switches position.

Certainly IME this isn't necessarily the conductor rail(s). I've
noticed it many times on BR trains with no conductor rails. I am also
doubtful if the girder bridge near Turnham Green has a significant
effect; again I've heard this many times on bridgeless stretches of
track. The most that bridge will be doing is acting as a sound box
(like the body of a guitar).

Keith
(remove 00 to reply)

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

"Steve Dulieu" wrote in message
...

"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
jasonr (Jason Rumney) @ f2s.com wrote:

I can definitely hear
the difference between District line trains and North
London line trains at Gunnersbury.

Perhaps someone should release a "Best Of" album?

Please, not even in jest...

Has anyone else seen that "Trains In Trouble" album, with the sounds of
various steam engines trying to pull too many carriages up various steep
inclines?

--
John Rowland - Spamtrapped
Transport Plans for the London Area, updated 2001
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acro...69/tpftla.html
A man's vehicle is a symbol of his manhood.
That's why my vehicle's the Piccadilly Line -
It's the size of a county and it comes every two and a half minutes

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

TheOneKEA wrote:

I live in Richmond and take the District Line into Central London
about once a week. Sometimes I change trains at Turnham Green to go to
Ealing Broadway. When I am at Turnham Green, I have noticed that the
tracks make strange noises when either a Piccadilly or a District
train is approaching. No matter how fast the incoming train is
traveling, the tracks twang, rattle and vibrate like huge springs are
being snapped back and forth. Once the train has passed by, the sound
continues until the train is well away from the platform.

I have not heard this anywhere else on the Underground except at
Turnham Green and some of the stations east of it (the tracks at Earls
Court and Victoria make the sound, but it's much more faint than at
Turnham Green). Does anyone have a clue as to what I'm hearing?

To change the subject slightly, there is a similar "singing" sound from
the overhead power lines at Ealing Broadway station; at least, that's
where it appears to be coming from. It is constant, i.e. it doesn't
start up just when a train is approaching, and it is quite loud. I
haven't noticed it on other lines with overhead electrification, so I
wonder what is causing it?

--
John Ray, London UK.

Mail to mefp49 is unlikely to be read. I can be contacted at xcf70 (same
ISP).

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

To change the subject slightly, there is a similar "singing" sound from
the overhead power lines at Ealing Broadway station; at least, that's
where it appears to be coming from. It is constant, i.e. it doesn't
start up just when a train is approaching, and it is quite loud. I
haven't noticed it on other lines with overhead electrification, so I
wonder what is causing it?

I was there the other day, and wondering what the strange noise was. It
seemed to me to be more of a beeping than a singing though.
--
Spyke
Address is valid, but messages are treated as junk. The opinions I express do
not necessarily reflect those of the educational institution from which I post.

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

"John Rowland" wrote in message
...
"Steve Dulieu" wrote in message
...

"Cast_Iron" wrote in message
...
jasonr (Jason Rumney) @ f2s.com wrote:

I can definitely hear
the difference between District line trains and North
London line trains at Gunnersbury.

Perhaps someone should release a "Best Of" album?

Please, not even in jest...

Has anyone else seen that "Trains In Trouble" album, with the sounds of
various steam engines trying to pull too many carriages up various steep
inclines?

Thats what I was (very obliquely) refering to. I used to work for Polygram
and had to listen to the masters of the damm thing (My memory may be failing
me, but wasn't there a series of them?) umpty times checking for
manufacturing errors. Just the memory brings me out in a cold sweat...
--
Cheers, Steve.
If The Good Lord had meant for us to be fiscally prudent, He would not have
given us the platinum credit card...
Change colour to PC Plod's lights to reply.

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

Ealing Broadway. When I am at Turnham Green, I have noticed that the
tracks make strange noises when either a Piccadilly or a District
train is approaching. No matter how fast the incoming train is
traveling, the tracks twang, rattle and vibrate like huge springs are
being snapped back and forth. Once the train has passed by, the sound

I am not sure we are talking about the same noise, but I know something like
what you describe can be heard very well on the District Line east bound at
West Ham. Get off a train and wait for the next one to Barking or
Upminster...

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

Spyke wrote in message ...

To change the subject slightly, there is a similar "singing" sound from
the overhead power lines at Ealing Broadway station; at least, that's
where it appears to be coming from. It is constant, i.e. it doesn't
start up just when a train is approaching, and it is quite loud. I
haven't noticed it on other lines with overhead electrification, so I
wonder what is causing it?

I was there the other day, and wondering what the strange noise was. It
seemed to me to be more of a beeping than a singing though.

The singing noise comes from a box in the six foot on the main lines
that looks like a cable termination box - I suspect it's a Tuning Unit
for TI21 jointless track circuits, having seen a similar one in the
National Railway Supplies catalogue. The purpose is to cause the
circuit to resonate at the defined operating frequency which is in the
audio range, and they are installed at track circuit boundaries.

The Singing Tracks at Turnham Green
 

Thomas Crame wrote:

The singing noise comes from a box in the six foot on the main lines
that looks like a cable termination box - I suspect it's a Tuning Unit
for TI21 jointless track circuits, having seen a similar one in the
National Railway Supplies catalogue. The purpose is to cause the
circuit to resonate at the defined operating frequency which is in the
audio range, and they are installed at track circuit boundaries.

Thank you for the explanation.

--
John Ray, London UK.

Mail to mefp49 is unlikely to be read. I can be contacted at xcf70 (same
ISP).