TfL Farefinder
 

This is quite misleading - it shows the fare from Clapham Junction to
Canary Wharf being £2.20 (£2.30 next year).

Now if I were to use PAYG in January I could assume that's what it
would cost, yet other tables suggest it could be £3.30, which I reckon
is the right price.

Would you have any comeback against them (assuming one had the
patience to tackle the Oyster helpline)?

TfL Farefinder
 

On Dec 15, 12:21*pm, stan5001 wrote:
This is quite misleading - it shows the fare from Clapham Junction to
Canary Wharf being £2.20 (£2.30 next year).

Now if I were to use PAYG in January I could assume that's what it
would cost, yet other tables suggest it could be £3.30, which I reckon
is the right price.

Would you have any comeback against them (assuming one had the
patience to tackle the Oyster helpline)?

If you use PAYG from Clapham Junction into Waterloo and take the
Jubilee directly from Waterlook, then gbp3.30 is certainly the correct
fare.

I'm not quite sure what the score is if you use PAYG from Clapham
Junction into Victoria and change to the Jubilee at Westminster, as
that PAYG system went live this year.

--
John Band
john at johnband dot org
www.johnband.org

TfL Farefinder
 

stan5001 wrote:
This is quite misleading - it shows the fare from Clapham Junction to
Canary Wharf being £2.20 (£2.30 next year).

Now if I were to use PAYG in January I could assume that's what it
would cost, yet other tables suggest it could be £3.30, which I reckon
is the right price.

If you click on the "Alternative Routes" option, you get £3.20 if you
pass through Zone 1, changing between LU and National Rail at Vauxhall,
Blackfriars, Cannon Street, Charing Cross, Embankment, London Bridge,
Victoria or Waterloo.

Take the "long way round" and do Clapham Junction - Willesden Junction -
Stratford - Canary Wharf (Jubbly) and it'll only cost you £1.30. (That
it'll take you approximately forever to do so is neither here nor there).

£2.30 appears the Tube/DLR/Overground PAYG rate, and would presumably
imply Clapham Jn - Canada Water (when the ELLX opens) - Canary Wharf.

Cheers,

Barry

TfL Farefinder
 

stan5001 wrote:
This is quite misleading - it shows the fare from Clapham Junction to
Canary Wharf being £2.20 (£2.30 next year).

Now if I were to use PAYG in January I could assume that's what it
would cost, yet other tables suggest it could be £3.30, which I reckon
is the right price.

That will be the fare using TfL services only, eg LO changing onto LU
somewhere.

Click on the 'Alternative fares' button for the lower fares using LO via
Stratford and higher fares using NR via a mainline service to Vauxhall,
Victoria, Waterloo etc. Seems to be £3.20 though...

'Alternative fares' show the necessary routeing information

Paul S

TfL Farefinder
 

Yes, but being pedantic, it does say underneath "Alternative Oyster
single fares, which may be cheaper, are available for this journey"

And, if you click on "Plan this journey" it suggests SWT to Waterloo
and thence Jubilee line.

So it is perfectly feasible for those not in the know to pay more than
they expected.

TfL Farefinder
 

stan5001 wrote:
Yes, but being pedantic, it does say underneath "Alternative Oyster
single fares, which may be cheaper, are available for this journey"

And, if you click on "Plan this journey" it suggests SWT to Waterloo
and thence Jubilee line.

So it is perfectly feasible for those not in the know to pay more than
they expected.

If you are suggesting that the fare finder should default to the most likely
journey that will be made, such as the fastest or most direct, I agree
entirely.

Following the default that the journey planner comes up with would seem most
sensible.

Paul S

TfL Farefinder
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:32:12 -0000, "Paul Scott"

Following the default that the journey planner comes up with would seem
most
sensible.

Except that what the journey planner advises in a great many cases has
no relationship at all to what the fare finder may tell you in terms of
routes. You have to manipulate the journey planner options to replicate
what the fares finder tells you. In some cases the fare finder options
(for alternative fares) are so wide ranging in the lists of "valid"
stations for a given route that a number are, to my mind, mind boggling
and utterly illogical.

Er... right. Then maybe it should just explain what it is displaying by
default, eg for the example above it could explicitly say it is for an LO/LU
fare. Then the 'alternative fares' button note could read that other lower
OR higher fares may also be available. Stan's point is valid I think
though, because the typical traveller is probably going to go to Waterloo
for the Jubilee.

Paul S

TfL Farefinder
 

On 15 Dec, 18:55, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:32:12 -0000, "Paul Scott"





wrote:
stan5001 wrote:
Yes, but being pedantic, it does say underneath "Alternative Oyster
single fares, which may be cheaper, are available for this journey"

And, if you click on "Plan this journey" it suggests SWT to Waterloo
and thence Jubilee line.

So it is perfectly feasible for those not in the know to pay more than
they expected.

If you are suggesting that the fare finder should default to the most likely
journey that will be made, such as the fastest or most direct, I agree
entirely.

Following the default that the journey planner comes up with would seem most
sensible.

Except that what the journey planner advises in a great many cases has
no relationship at all to what the fare finder may tell you in terms of
routes. *You have to manipulate the journey planner options to replicate
what the fares finder tells you. In some cases the fare finder options
(for alternative fares) are so wide ranging in the lists of "valid"
stations for a given route that a number are, to my mind, mind boggling
and utterly illogical.
--
Paul C

One confusing issue with the farefinder is that the alternative routes
use groups of OSIs or purple validators where not all are sensible.
For example, Willesden Junction to Holland Park gives the interchanges
as "Kensington Olympia, Shepherds Bush or West Brompton". This
grouping always appears even where only one of these would be sensible
(Shepherds Bush in this case.)

TfL Farefinder
 

On 15 Dec, 12:57, "Paul Scott" wrote:
That will be the fare using TfL services only, eg LO changing onto LU
somewhere.

I think the fare it gives you first is always what you'd be charged if
you didn't touch any barriers or readers along the way, which on some
journeys (like this one) assumes a cheaper route than the most
obvious.

U

TfL Farefinder
 

Barry Salter wrote:


£2.30 appears the Tube/DLR/Overground PAYG rate, and would presumably
imply Clapham Jn - Canada Water (when the ELLX opens) - Canary Wharf.

Cheers,

Barry

Clapham Junction - West Brompton - Westminster - Canary Wharf?

[yes, I spent a long time analysing PAYG weirdnesses - the
Vauxhall/Elephant & Castle Easement being my particular favourite]

Tom

TfL Farefinder
 

On 17 Dec, 14:24, Tom Barry wrote:
Barry Salter wrote:

2.30 appears the Tube/DLR/Overground PAYG rate, and would presumably
imply Clapham Jn - Canada Water (when the ELLX opens) - Canary Wharf.

Cheers,

Barry

Clapham Junction - West Brompton - Westminster - Canary Wharf?

[yes, I spent a long time analysing PAYG weirdnesses - the
Vauxhall/Elephant & Castle Easement being my particular favourite]

Tom

Brilliant, that actually might not take much longer if I got the
connections right. What is the Vauxhall/Elephant & Castle Easement ?

TfL Farefinder
 

On Dec 17, 3:23*pm, stan5001 wrote:
What is the Vauxhall/Elephant & Castle Easement ?

One of the rules of Mornington Crescent, I believe.

TfL Farefinder
 

martin wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:23 pm, stan5001 wrote:
What is the Vauxhall/Elephant & Castle Easement ?

One of the rules of Mornington Crescent, I believe.

*hehe*

It's a peculiarity of the £1.10 premium for using NR then TfL farescales
into Z1 that if, when coming from outside Z2 you change to the tube at a
Z2/Z1 border station it costs less (£5.00 instead of £6.00 from Z6, for
instance). You effectively get paid a quid back for walking across the
border (the £5 comes from adding Z6-Z2 NR = £3.20 to Z1-Z1 TfL = £1.80).

For completeness, on a 2010 NR line the differences and savings a

Z6 £5.00 £6.00 £1.00
Z5 £4.50 £5.00 £0.50
Z4 £4.00 £4.20 £0.20
Z3 £3.60 £3.70 £0.10
Z2 £3.20 £3.20 £0.00

Vauxhall and E&C are, so far as I can tell, the only two Z2/Z1 border
stations this applies to, and are thus in the fare finder as Alternative
Fares for a lot of south London journeys into Z1.

This left me wondering why it didn't apply to changing from the NR to
the TfL farescale further out, such as GE to Stratford, then Central
Line, but it seems not to. Looking up the fares for a Z6 start:

Z6-Z1 Romford-Oxford Circus NR/TfL = £6
Z6-Z3 Romford-Stratford NR = £2.70
Z3-Z1 Stratford-Oxford Circus TfL = £2.70

so you should save money touching out at Stratford, then touching in
again and taking the tube...

[naturally I take no responsibility if the buggers have spotted this one
coming]

I'm sure there are other examples of this.

Tom

P.S. for extra fun, try and work out why there are three separate sets
of fares shown for Chiswick - Uxbridge. I *think* I've worked it out,
but it depends on being an OSI God. It's insane.

TfL Farefinder
 

On 17 Dec, 20:31, Tom Barry wrote:
martin wrote:
On Dec 17, 3:23 pm, stan5001 wrote:
What is the Vauxhall/Elephant & Castle Easement ?

One of the rules of Mornington Crescent, I believe.

*hehe*

It's a peculiarity of the £1.10 premium for using NR then TfL farescales
into Z1 that if, when coming from outside Z2 you change to the tube at a
Z2/Z1 border station it costs less (£5.00 instead of £6.00 from Z6, for
instance). *You effectively get paid a quid back for walking across the
border (the £5 comes from adding Z6-Z2 NR = £3.20 to Z1-Z1 TfL = £1.80).

For completeness, on a 2010 NR line the differences and savings a

Z6 £5.00 *£6.00 * £1.00
Z5 £4.50 *£5.00 * £0.50
Z4 £4.00 *£4.20 * £0.20
Z3 £3.60 *£3.70 * £0.10
Z2 £3.20 *£3.20 * £0.00

Vauxhall and E&C are, so far as I can tell, the only two Z2/Z1 border
stations this applies to, and are thus in the fare finder as Alternative
Fares for a lot of south London journeys into Z1.

This left me wondering why it didn't apply to changing from the NR to
the TfL farescale further out, such as GE to Stratford, then Central
Line, but it seems not to. *Looking up the fares for a Z6 start:

Z6-Z1 Romford-Oxford Circus NR/TfL = £6
Z6-Z3 Romford-Stratford NR = £2.70
Z3-Z1 Stratford-Oxford Circus TfL = £2.70

so you should save money touching out at Stratford, then touching in
again and taking the tube...

[naturally I take no responsibility if the buggers have spotted this one
coming]

I'm sure there are other examples of this.

Tom

P.S. for extra fun, try and work out why there are three separate sets
of fares shown for Chiswick - Uxbridge. *I *think* I've worked it out,
but it depends on being an OSI God. *It's insane.

The record number of routes I've seen so far is seven (Imperial Wharf
- Harrow on the Hill)

TfL Farefinder
 

P.S. for extra fun, try and work out why there are three separate sets
of fares shown for Chiswick - Uxbridge. *I *think* I've worked it out,
but it depends on being an OSI God. *It's insane.

I guess because it's cheaper, it's ZZ3-6, so Chiswick-Barnes-Richmond-
Turnham Green-Acton Town-Uxbridge would be valid.
Or Chiswick-Hounslow-Richmond-Turnham Green, if you want to spend a
bit longer on the Chiswick-Turnham Green section :-)

The record number of routes I've seen so far is seven (Imperial Wharf
- Harrow on the Hill)

I only get 6 :-(
The fare finder doesn't find "Harrow-on-the-Hill", only "Harrow on the
Hill", which is a bit rubbish.

TfL Farefinder
 

David wrote:
P.S. for extra fun, try and work out why there are three separate sets
of fares shown for Chiswick - Uxbridge. I *think* I've worked it out,
but it depends on being an OSI God. It's insane.

I guess because it's cheaper, it's ZZ3-6, so Chiswick-Barnes-Richmond-
Turnham Green-Acton Town-Uxbridge would be valid.
Or Chiswick-Hounslow-Richmond-Turnham Green, if you want to spend a
bit longer on the Chiswick-Turnham Green section :-)


Z3-Z6 : Chiswick - Barnes - Richmond - Willesden Junction -
Kenton/Northwick Park OSI - Uxbridge

Z2-Z6 : Chiswick - Clapham Junction - Willesden Junction then as before,
or Chiswick - CJ - West Brompton - Earls Court - Rayners Lane - Uxbridge
if you're actually insane.

Z1-Z6 : Chiswick - Vauxhall - Victoria - Jubilee - Metropolitan

;)

The price difference isn't trivial, either, since the last one's a Z1
NR/TfL premium route.

Tom