New years day service - or lack thereof
 

We wanted to go up to the new years day parade today - but oh what a surprise
- the tube is doing a 1 train every half hour service in the burbs. Fantastic.
Good to know the people running public transport really have the public
interest at heart.

And have the fares gone up yet too? Wouldn't surprise me.

B2003

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 09:52:26 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

We wanted to go up to the new years day parade today - but oh what a
surprise - the tube is doing a 1 train every half hour service in the
burbs. Fantastic. Good to know the people running public transport
really have the public interest at heart.

This is no different from last year. Services increase in frequency from
around 1100 or so.

What was different was no free tube travel last night, just buses and
trams, I gather.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In message , at 07:56:34
on Fri, 1 Jan 2010, remarked:
This is no different from last year. Services increase in frequency from
around 1100 or so.

What was different was no free tube travel last night, just buses and
trams, I gather.

The news broadcasts I saw, mentioned "free public transport until
4.30am".
--
Roland Perry

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 07:56:34 -0600,
wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 09:52:26 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

We wanted to go up to the new years day parade today - but oh what a
surprise - the tube is doing a 1 train every half hour service in
the burbs. Fantastic. Good to know the people running public
transport really have the public interest at heart.

This is no different from last year. Services increase in frequency
from around 1100 or so.

What was different was no free tube travel last night, just buses and
trams, I gather.

Except, of course, that isn't what was organised. All tubes, DLR, buses
and trams were free from 2345 to 0430. One NR line - Southern (Victoria
to East Croydon) I think - also ran free. All the other NR lines had to
be paid for as I believe the subsidy was withdrawn as a result of TfL
budget cuts.

Ta. It turns out my informant was referring to the TOC train services.

--
Colin Rosenstiel (firmly in Cambridge last night and today)

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

On 1 Jan, 14:08, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 07:56:34 -0600,
wrote:

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 09:52:26 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

We wanted to go up to the new years day parade today - but oh what a
surprise - the tube is doing a 1 train every half hour service in the
burbs. Fantastic. Good to know the people running public transport
really have the public interest at heart.

This is no different from last year. Services increase in frequency from
around 1100 or so.

What was different was no free tube travel last night, just buses and
trams, I gather.

Except, of course, that isn't what was organised. *All tubes, DLR, buses
and trams were free from 2345 to 0430. One NR line - Southern (Victoria
to East Croydon) I think - also ran free. All the other NR lines had to
be paid for as I believe the subsidy was withdrawn as a result of TfL
budget cuts.


It was always a fairly empty gesture anyway, if it was applied
correctly, given that most people would have travelcards or would have
got returns which were a few p more than a single, plus the lack of
checks anyway.

So if it really does affect the budget, I wonder who was claiming what
about the cost of it? Was it NR effectively scamming TfL about some
theoretical amount of revenue that would never have been collected in
practice?

In future, it really could make a difference, because PAYG involves
abolishing day returns and funds are collected without staff.

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

Paul Corfield wrote:

One NR line - Southern
(Victoria to East Croydon) I think - also ran free. All the other NR
lines had to be paid for as I believe the subsidy was withdrawn as a
result of TfL budget cuts.

I thought ING Direct paid for it rather than TfL? Anyway, since everyone had
to pay for their transport to get to the fireworks, the actual subsidy
required to cover the fares for getting home would be relatively small, I
would have thought.

--
We are the Strasbourg. Referendum is futile.

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 10:06:24 +0000
Paul Corfield wrote:
And have the fares gone up yet too? Wouldn't surprise me.

Tomorrow - I look forward to your post about it.

Can't be bothered. Pay more money , same **** service. Usual story. Luckily
I'm not a tube commuter any longer so its not an issue for me but I feel
sorry for the people who are.

Though perhaps 2010 is the year LU come up with some new excuses - the
regulating the service BS excuse for delaying a train that I heard twice
today is getting rather tired.

B2003

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 09:52:26 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:
We wanted to go up to the new years day parade today - but oh what a surprise
- the tube is doing a 1 train every half hour service in the burbs. Fantastic.
Good to know the people running public transport really have the public
interest at heart.


Why would it be in "the public interest" to run trains at more
frequent intervals when there is insufficient demand to justify them?

So who should pay for these unnecessary additional trains? Council
tax payers in London? Taxpayers around the UK?

Everyone except you, presumably. ;-)

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

"Tom Barry" wrote in message
...
wrote:

This is no different from last year. Services increase in frequency from
around 1100 or so.

What was different was no free tube travel last night, just buses and
trams, I gather.


Tubes were free, I thought? National Rail wasn't, owing to TfL not paying
for it,

In past years, free travel has been sponsored.

Did they not have a sponsor for yesterday?

tim

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
07:56:34 on Fri, 1 Jan 2010, remarked:
This is no different from last year. Services increase in frequency
from around 1100 or so.

What was different was no free tube travel last night, just buses and
trams, I gather.

The news broadcasts I saw, mentioned "free public transport until
4.30am".

Happy New Year, Roland!

I've already noted that I was confused between the tube and NR.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

On 1 Jan, 14:41, Paul Corfield wrote:
Agreed - I think if we have free travel next year *and* the fares
revision on 1/1/11 (quite likely I would have thought)

Very unlikely actually.....TfL change fares on 2 January every year
now, regardless of the day of the week....

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

On 1 Jan, 18:58, "tim...." wrote:
In past years, free travel has been sponsored.

Did they not have a sponsor for yesterday?

Read the thread - references to ING were posted at least 4 hours
before you asked that queestion.....

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 13:59:14 -0800 (PST), Chris
wrote:

On 1 Jan, 14:41, Paul Corfield wrote:
Agreed - I think if we have free travel next year *and* the fares
revision on 1/1/11 (quite likely I would have thought)

Very unlikely actually.....TfL change fares on 2 January every year
now, regardless of the day of the week....

Do they? I've learnt something then as I hadn't appreciated it was now
on a fixed date. It used to be the first Sunday in January when I was
involved in the fares revision process (a long time ago!).

I have to admit *I* was puzzled why the change this year is on January
2nd. I'd have expected it to happen on the 3rd though looking at FCC's web
site I see they are changing tomorrow too.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In message , at 13:22:22
on Fri, 1 Jan 2010, remarked:

The news broadcasts I saw, mentioned "free public transport until
4.30am".

Happy New Year, Roland!

I've already noted that I was confused between the tube and NR.

Some 23 seconds after I posted my remark. Quick work!
--
Roland Perry

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:12:12 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:

Agreed - I think if we have free travel next year *and* the fares
revision on 1/1/11 (quite likely I would have thought)

Very unlikely actually.....TfL change fares on 2 January every year
now, regardless of the day of the week....

Do they? I've learnt something then as I hadn't appreciated it was now
on a fixed date. It used to be the first Sunday in January when I was
involved in the fares revision process (a long time ago!).

1/1/11 is a Saturday...

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In article ,
lid (asdf) wrote:

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:12:12 +0000, Paul Corfield wrote:

Agreed - I think if we have free travel next year *and* the fares
revision on 1/1/11 (quite likely I would have thought)

Very unlikely actually.....TfL change fares on 2 January every year
now, regardless of the day of the week....

Do they? I've learnt something then as I hadn't appreciated it was now
on a fixed date. It used to be the first Sunday in January when I was
involved in the fares revision process (a long time ago!).

1/1/11 is a Saturday...

Whatever. The annual fare increase date seems to have crept forward over
the years. Looks like it was the first weekend in January when I started
working in London in 2001/2. Looks like the 2 January date was effective
from at least 2006, though.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
13:22:22 on Fri, 1 Jan 2010, remarked:

The news broadcasts I saw, mentioned "free public transport until
4.30am".

Happy New Year, Roland!

I've already noted that I was confused between the tube and NR.

Some 23 seconds after I posted my remark. Quick work!

Hours before, given that I read and post offline.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In message , at 17:15:04
on Fri, 1 Jan 2010, remarked:
The news broadcasts I saw, mentioned "free public transport until
4.30am".

Happy New Year, Roland!

I've already noted that I was confused between the tube and NR.

Some 23 seconds after I posted my remark. Quick work!

Hours before, given that I read and post offline.

I'm afraid I'm not responsible for reading the newsgroup postings you
haven't yet uploaded, as well as the one you have :)
--
Roland Perry

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
17:15:04 on Fri, 1 Jan 2010, remarked:
The news broadcasts I saw, mentioned "free public transport until
4.30am".

Happy New Year, Roland!

I've already noted that I was confused between the tube and NR.

Some 23 seconds after I posted my remark. Quick work!

Hours before, given that I read and post offline.

I'm afraid I'm not responsible for reading the newsgroup postings
you haven't yet uploaded, as well as the one you have :)

Other way round. I hadn't read yours yet when I wrote mine.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In message , at 04:48:19
on Sat, 2 Jan 2010, remarked:
I've already noted that I was confused between the tube and NR.

Some 23 seconds after I posted my remark. Quick work!

Hours before, given that I read and post offline.

I'm afraid I'm not responsible for reading the newsgroup postings
you haven't yet uploaded, as well as the one you have :)

Other way round. I hadn't read yours yet when I wrote mine.

So don't complain to me about your OLR lag, five hours later.
--
Roland Perry

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

In message , at
04:48:19 on Sat, 2 Jan 2010,
remarked:
I've already noted that I was confused between the tube and NR.

Some 23 seconds after I posted my remark. Quick work!

Hours before, given that I read and post offline.

I'm afraid I'm not responsible for reading the newsgroup postings
you haven't yet uploaded, as well as the one you have :)

Other way round. I hadn't read yours yet when I wrote mine.

So don't complain to me about your OLR lag, five hours later.

Some of us have other things than read newsgroups to do all day on New
Year's Day!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In message , at 08:19:57
on Sat, 2 Jan 2010, remarked:
So don't complain to me about your OLR lag, five hours later.

Some of us have other things than read newsgroups to do all day on New
Year's Day!

It doesn't matter what you were doing on any specific day, the issue
here is refraining from complaining about things that are of your
making, not someone else's.
--
Roland Perry

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

It doesn't matter what you were doing on any specific day, the
issue here is refraining from complaining about things that are of
your making, not someone else's.

That's not fair, Roland - you were an official fan of AMEOL once.

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In message t, at
15:22:00 on Sat, 2 Jan 2010, Paul Cummins
remarked:
It doesn't matter what you were doing on any specific day, the
issue here is refraining from complaining about things that are of
your making, not someone else's.

That's not fair, Roland - you were an official fan of AMEOL once.

As far as I'm aware there's nothing special in Ameol that obscures when
posting were made, and thereby excuses people complaining that your
posting ignores one that they have yet to distribute (although in this
case they had also yet to type it!)
--
Roland Perry

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

As far as I'm aware there's nothing special in Ameol that obscures
when posting were made, and thereby excuses people complaining that
your posting ignores one that they have yet to distribute (although
in this case they had also yet to type it!)

Apart from the off-line aspect of it.

The posting date/time will be when you blink, not when you write.

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 18:12:02 +0000
Bruce wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 09:52:26 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:
We wanted to go up to the new years day parade today - but oh what a surprise
- the tube is doing a 1 train every half hour service in the burbs. Fantastic.
Good to know the people running public transport really have the public
interest at heart.


Why would it be in "the public interest" to run trains at more
frequent intervals when there is insufficient demand to justify them?

So 250,000 people turning up for the new years day parade is insufficient
demand? Who knows how many would have gone if the tube service had been
better.

So who should pay for these unnecessary additional trains? Council
tax payers in London? Taxpayers around the UK?

And there was me thinking thats what the fares are for.

B2003

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In message t, at
15:37:00 on Sat, 2 Jan 2010, Paul Cummins
remarked:
As far as I'm aware there's nothing special in Ameol that obscures
when posting were made, and thereby excuses people complaining that
your posting ignores one that they have yet to distribute (although
in this case they had also yet to type it!)

Apart from the off-line aspect of it.

The posting date/time will be when you blink, not when you write.

And does Ameol obscure when that was?
--
Roland Perry

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In article , (Roland
Perry) wrote:

The posting date/time will be when you blink, not when you write.

And does Ameol obscure when that was?

It obscures when you wrote the message - it could have been many years
before you posted it...

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:47:00 +0000
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 16:08:01 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

So 250,000 people turning up for the new years day parade is insufficient
demand? Who knows how many would have gone if the tube service had been
better.

Apparently another 250,000 people made it. I assume they walked ;-)

Was it half a mil? Guess LBC got it wrong.

Anyway , that just makes my point even more valid.

B2003

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In message t, at
16:40:00 on Sat, 2 Jan 2010, Paul Cummins
remarked:
The posting date/time will be when you blink, not when you write.

And does Ameol obscure when that was?

It obscures when you wrote the message - it could have been many years
before you posted it...

In which case one should be wary of accusing people of posting things
after you did.
--
Roland Perry

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In message , Basil Jet
writes

Was it half a mil? Guess LBC got it wrong.

Anyway , that just makes my point even more valid.

I'd be surprised if LUL have enough drivers to run a more frequent service
than they did.

They didn't have me;)
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In article ,
(Basil Jet) wrote:

d wrote:
On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:47:00 +0000
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jan 2010 16:08:01 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

So 250,000 people turning up for the new years day parade is
insufficient demand? Who knows how many would have gone if the tube
service had been better.

Apparently another 250,000 people made it. I assume they walked ;-)

Was it half a mil? Guess LBC got it wrong.

Anyway , that just makes my point even more valid.

I'd be surprised if LUL have enough drivers to run a more frequent
service than they did.

Presumably New Year's Day is a bigger example of the LM/FCC drivers not
wanting to work on days they don't have to?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In message ,
writes

So 250,000 people turning up for the new years day parade is
insufficient demand? Who knows how many would have gone if the tube
service had been better.

Apparently another 250,000 people made it. I assume they walked ;-)

Was it half a mil? Guess LBC got it wrong.

Anyway , that just makes my point even more valid.

I'd be surprised if LUL have enough drivers to run a more frequent
service than they did.

Presumably New Year's Day is a bigger example of the LM/FCC drivers not
wanting to work on days they don't have to?

To be honest it doesn't work like that on LUL.

Since company plan (as the old boys tell me) LUL drivers are salaried
staff contracted to work 5 days a week - that's any 5 days out of 7
every week come hell or high water, subject to leave.

This means that public holidays (even Christmas day) are a normal
working day for us and if you are rostered to work it then work you do.
I was booked rest day so I didn't work. The problem is that when NYD is
a weekday, as it was, there will be an excess of drivers as the normal
weekday numbers will be rostered to work. This number is reduced to the
requirements of the timetable offered and the excess either sit 'spare'
or take a day of their leave. Of course, on Christmas day everybody is
either rest day or takes a days leave.

So the answer to the original post (which I didn't see and I'll leave
that as an exercise for the reader to work out why) we could have
actually run a pretty full weekday timetable and had the staff to do it.
TfL (or whoever) decided to offer the service that was run.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

On 1 Jan, 23:12, wrote:
Do they? *I've learnt something then as I hadn't appreciated it was now
on a fixed date. It used to be the first Sunday in January when I was
involved in the fares revision process (a long time ago!).

1/1/11 is a Saturday...

Whatever. The annual fare increase date seems to have crept forward over
the years. Looks like it was the first weekend in January when I started
working in London in 2001/2. Looks like the 2 January date was effective
from at least 2006, though.

Yes, it's fixed again - they'd do it on January 1st, but didn't want
to pay overtime at super-enhanced rates to the staff that need to
update everything necessary. Also, I reckon, because transport
operates all night on New Year's Eve and it would be confusing if fare
rises happened during opening hours.

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In article
,
(Chris) wrote:

[fare increase date]

Also, I reckon, because transport operates all night on New Year's
Eve and it would be confusing if fare rises happened during opening
hours.

Isn't that a consideration on January 2? Do they wait till 04:30? What
about night buses?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

So the answer to the original post (which I didn't see and I'll leave
that as an exercise for the reader to work out why) we could have
actually run a pretty full weekday timetable and had the staff to do
it. TfL (or whoever) decided to offer the service that was run.

I misunderstood the original post - I thought the service level through the
night was being discussed, and suggested that running a decent service
through New Years Eve and New Years Day and through the night between them
would require more drivers than LUL have.

--
We are the Strasbourg. Referendum is futile.

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

In message , Basil Jet
writes
Steve Fitzgerald wrote:

So the answer to the original post (which I didn't see and I'll leave
that as an exercise for the reader to work out why) we could have
actually run a pretty full weekday timetable and had the staff to do
it. TfL (or whoever) decided to offer the service that was run.

I misunderstood the original post - I thought the service level through the
night was being discussed, and suggested that running a decent service
through New Years Eve and New Years Day and through the night between them
would require more drivers than LUL have.

The service though the night is staffed by volunteers (of which there
were plenty as I couldn't get a shift). That part is the only
difference from a normal day and will, indeed require a few more than
normal staff. I think only 15 or 20 duties though as after 0200 the
service does thin down a bit.
--
Steve Fitzgerald has now left the building.
You will find him in London's Docklands, E16, UK
(please use the reply to address for email)

New years day service - or lack thereof
 

On 3 Jan, 00:24, wrote:
In article
,

(Chris) wrote:

[fare increase date]

Also, I reckon, because transport operates all night on New Year's
Eve and it would be confusing if fare rises happened during opening
hours.

Isn't that a consideration on January 2? Do they wait till 04:30? What
about night buses?

Clicks over about 0430 I believe.