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Super off-peak Travelcard won't operate gates at many stations
Today I travelled to London on a super off-peak London One-day
Travelcard purchased from FCC at Luton Airport Parkway. I know from past experiences that these tickets operate the gates at all TfL stations that I've used, but consistently fail at those of South Eastern Trains (e.g. Charing Cross and London Bridge). Today I also found both of our tickets were rejected at London St.Pancras (upper level), which surprised me because EMT operate direct trains to Luton Airport Parkway and ought to have their barriers programmed correctly. I have no idea whether the fault is with FCC for not encoding the tickets correctly (as the EMT barrier man said) or with the other train companies failing to recognise this fairly new type of ticket. The rejection code, I think, is 105. It is really annoying to have to spend extra minutes searching out the manned barrier at these stations, where there is often a small queue of people with problems, and then explaining why my ticket fails. At some time I shall miss a train because of the extra delay. Has anyone else experienced the same problem? It would be useful to know before I try complaining to the various companies involved. -- Clive Page |
Super off-peak Travelcard won't operate gates at many stations
In message , Clive Page
writes I have no idea whether the fault is with FCC for not encoding the tickets correctly (as the EMT barrier man said) or with the other train companies failing to recognise this fairly new type of ticket. The rejection code, I think, is 105. I thought Oyster error codes are all double digits. Very few end in 5, but 05 is "engineer signed onto machine" and 15 is "no onward validity". -- Paul Terry |
Super off-peak Travelcard won't operate gates at many stations
On Jan 30, 7:09*pm, Paul Terry wrote:
In message , Clive Page writes I have no idea whether the fault is with FCC for not encoding the tickets correctly (as the EMT barrier man said) or with the other train companies failing to recognise this fairly new type of ticket. *The rejection code, I think, is 105. I thought Oyster error codes are all double digits. Very few end in 5, but 05 is "engineer signed onto machine" and 15 is "no onward validity". It's not an Oyster error code though, as it is a National Rail station being used with a paper ticket ;) I think NR had to add some codes on top of the TfL ones due things like tickets with limited validity. However, I can't find a list of the extra codes (I have seen three digits ones though). |
Super off-peak Travelcard won't operate gates at many stations
[x-posted to uk.railway]
[original thread on uk.transport.london] On Jan 30, 7:39*pm, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:42:56 +0000, Clive Page wrote: Today I travelled to London on a super off-peak London One-day Travelcard purchased from FCC at Luton Airport Parkway. *I know from past experiences that these tickets operate the gates at all TfL stations that I've used, but consistently fail at those of South Eastern Trains (e.g. Charing Cross and London Bridge). *Today I also found both of our tickets were rejected at London St.Pancras (upper level), which surprised me because EMT operate direct trains to Luton Airport Parkway and ought to have their barriers programmed correctly. *I have no idea whether the fault is with FCC for not encoding the tickets correctly (as the EMT barrier man said) or with the other train companies failing to recognise this fairly new type of ticket. *The rejection code, I think, is 105. It is really annoying to have to spend extra minutes searching out the manned barrier at these stations, where there is often a small queue of people with problems, and then explaining why my ticket fails. *At some time I shall miss a train because of the extra delay. Has anyone else experienced the same problem? *It would be useful to know before I try complaining to the various companies involved. I have not had the same problem but I have not purchased any tickets that might be problematic other than All Line Rovers. I never put the All Line Rover in a NR Ticket gate during any journeys. I always went to the manual gate as I was not prepared to risk having my ticket confiscated or missing a train due to a ticket reject. If you do decide to complain I think you should ask a pointed question about the basis of NR ticket gating and ensuring there is a properly controlled and integrated system of ticket issuing, ticket coding, ticket reading, ticket interpretation and finally ticket rewriting and final validation. *I am not up to date so I may be wrong but I am not aware of any NR funded improvement to the ticket stripe so that the NR portion of it is used for NR journey checking. *I believe the TOCs "botch" their checking around what is encoded on the LUL portion of the stripe. *When you "botch" something that is not yours to "botch" it is no wonder there are problems. The LU system is obviously not designed to cater for the scale of the NR network. Ask them what their policy is, what they have done to avoid or remove passenger inconvenience and how they have ensured that what FCC does is compatible with LUL, DLR and every other TOC? * The problems you quote give you examples to hang off these questions. I would be astonished if you get a coherent and plausible response from any TOC. I would also suggest you ask the same questions of ATOC and Rail Settlement Plan - they are supposed to "control" these sorts of industry wide issues. *If you do get a response then I would love to read it on here - assuming you are willing to share it. With regards to the magnetic stripe being divided between having an LUL portion and an as yet unused BR (now NR) portion - this is something you've mentioned in a good number of past posts, but I'm just wondering if you could possibly flesh it out a little bit - some example questions (which I now realise, having typed them out, sound more like an inquisition as opposed to an opener to a casual discussion!)... (1) what kind of data is held on the LUL portion? (2) what data did the system architects anticipate the BR portion would hold? (3) is the BR portion just a 'blank canvas', or is there some storage structure that any data stored thereon would have to fall into line with? (4) did BR/ does NR do any ticket rewriting at all, or is that basically off-limits as it would otherwise infringe on the LUL portion? (5) to what extent does LUL make use of the capacity for rewriting? (6) pre-privatisation, did BR make any moves towards utilising their portion of the stripe? Of course, they didn't have any gates (did they?). I'm tempted to ask one more... how many people in DfT Rail do you think actually even comprehend this issue?! Given the funding they allocate for gating, perhaps they should! Lastly, how many funny looks do you get from rail staff if you show them an all-lines rail rover? I'm just wondering for how many wouldn't have seen one before. (I hope you don't mind but I've taken the raw liberty of crossposting this to the bear pit that is uk.railway!) |
Super off-peak Travelcard won't operate gates at many stations
"Clive Page" wrote in message ... Today I travelled to London on a super off-peak London One-day Travelcard purchased from FCC at Luton Airport Parkway. I know from past experiences that these tickets operate the gates at all TfL stations that I've used, but consistently fail at those of South Eastern Trains (e.g. Charing Cross and London Bridge). Today I also found both of our tickets were rejected at London St.Pancras (upper level), which surprised me because EMT operate direct trains to Luton Airport Parkway and ought to have their barriers programmed correctly. I have no idea whether the fault is with FCC for not encoding the tickets correctly (as the EMT barrier man said) or with the other train companies failing to recognise this fairly new type of ticket. The rejection code, I think, is 105. I've had the occasional NR ticket [especially if printed on a portable machine] that wouldn't work any LU or NR barrier all day, the view of most gate staff was that it just one of those glitches that happen. I'd be surprised if the fact it was a 'super off peak' was relevant to the problem really, SWT have been issuing them for nearly 3 years now, and I've been using them around London nearly as long. A couple of weeks ago I was accidentally sold a Super Offpeak Day travelcard dated for 8 days later. That definitely wouldn't have worked, so I had it reissued at another ticket office while changing trains. The guy in front of me in the original queue had been making a timetable query for the following week, I guess the clerk had moved the date forward? Paul S |
Super off-peak Travelcard won't operate gates at many stations
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Super off-peak Travelcard won't operate gates at many stations
In message , Paul Corfield
writes If you do decide to complain I think you should ask a pointed question about the basis of NR ticket gating and ensuring there is a properly controlled and integrated system of ticket issuing, ticket coding, ticket reading, ticket interpretation and finally ticket rewriting and final validation. I am not up to date so I may be wrong but I am not Paul Thanks for your suggestions. I have complained to the 3 TOCs involved (so far) and await replies. Your questions are very cogent, and I'll use them in follow-ups. portion of it is used for NR journey checking. I believe the TOCs "botch" their checking around what is encoded on the LUL portion of the stripe. I hadn't realise that the system was as badly botched as you suggest, I thought it was perhaps just another tiny bit of FCC incompetence. industry wide issues. If you do get a response then I would love to read it on here - assuming you are willing to share it. Of course. -- Clive Page |
Super off-peak Travelcard won't operate gates at many stations
In message , Paul Scott
writes gate staff was that it just one of those glitches that happen. I'd be surprised if the fact it was a 'super off peak' was relevant to the problem really, SWT have been issuing them for nearly 3 years now, and I've been using them around London nearly as long. Well I've had similar problems with *all* Super Off-peak 1-day travelcards, which work at all TfL gatelines, but not at many other "national rail" ones. The regular off-peak travelcards suffer occasional failures at the odd gate, but work maybe 95% of the time, and don't fail consistently anywhere. I didn't realise that SWT had been using them for so long - the factor perhaps you are missing here is that my tickets have been issued by FCC - not one of the most competent train companies. -- Clive Page |
Super off-peak Travelcard won't operate gates at many stations
On 30 Jan, 20:30, Mizter T wrote:
[x-posted to uk.railway] [original thread on uk.transport.london] On Jan 30, 7:39*pm, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:42:56 +0000, Clive Page wrote: Today I travelled to London on a super off-peak London One-day Travelcard purchased from FCC at Luton Airport Parkway. *I know from past experiences that these tickets operate the gates at all TfL stations that I've used, but consistently fail at those of South Eastern Trains (e.g. Charing Cross and London Bridge). *Today I also found both of our tickets were rejected at London St.Pancras (upper level), which surprised me because EMT operate direct trains to Luton Airport Parkway and ought to have their barriers programmed correctly. *I have no idea whether the fault is with FCC for not encoding the tickets correctly (as the EMT barrier man said) or with the other train companies failing to recognise this fairly new type of ticket. *The rejection code, I think, is 105. It is really annoying to have to spend extra minutes searching out the manned barrier at these stations, where there is often a small queue of people with problems, and then explaining why my ticket fails. *At some time I shall miss a train because of the extra delay. Has anyone else experienced the same problem? *It would be useful to know before I try complaining to the various companies involved. I have not had the same problem but I have not purchased any tickets that might be problematic other than All Line Rovers. I never put the All Line Rover in a NR Ticket gate during any journeys. I always went to the manual gate as I was not prepared to risk having my ticket confiscated or missing a train due to a ticket reject. If you do decide to complain I think you should ask a pointed question about the basis of NR ticket gating and ensuring there is a properly controlled and integrated system of ticket issuing, ticket coding, ticket reading, ticket interpretation and finally ticket rewriting and final validation. *I am not up to date so I may be wrong but I am not aware of any NR funded improvement to the ticket stripe so that the NR portion of it is used for NR journey checking. *I believe the TOCs "botch" their checking around what is encoded on the LUL portion of the stripe. *When you "botch" something that is not yours to "botch" it is no wonder there are problems. The LU system is obviously not designed to cater for the scale of the NR network. Ask them what their policy is, what they have done to avoid or remove passenger inconvenience and how they have ensured that what FCC does is compatible with LUL, DLR and every other TOC? * The problems you quote give you examples to hang off these questions. I would be astonished if you get a coherent and plausible response from any TOC. I would also suggest you ask the same questions of ATOC and Rail Settlement Plan - they are supposed to "control" these sorts of industry wide issues. *If you do get a response then I would love to read it on here - assuming you are willing to share it. With regards to the magnetic stripe being divided between having an LUL portion and an as yet unused BR (now NR) portion - this is something you've mentioned in a good number of past posts, but I'm just wondering if you could possibly flesh it out a little bit - some example questions (which I now realise, having typed them out, sound more like an inquisition as opposed to an opener to a casual discussion!)... (1) what kind of data is held on the LUL portion? (2) what data did the system architects anticipate the BR portion would hold? (3) is the BR portion just a 'blank canvas', or is there some storage structure that any data stored thereon would have to fall into line with? (4) did BR/ does NR do any ticket rewriting at all, or is that basically off-limits as it would otherwise infringe on the LUL portion? (5) to what extent does LUL make use of the capacity for rewriting? (6) pre-privatisation, did BR make any moves towards utilising their portion of the stripe? Of course, they didn't have any gates (did they?). I'm tempted to ask one more... how many people in DfT Rail do you think actually even comprehend this issue?! Given the funding they allocate for gating, perhaps they should! Lastly, how many funny looks do you get from rail staff if you show them an all-lines rail rover? I'm just wondering for how many wouldn't have seen one before. (I hope you don't mind but I've taken the raw liberty of crossposting this to the bear pit that is uk.railway!) A search for Atoc sp0035 brings up a document about RJIS that has some information on magnetic stripe encoding. |
Super off-peak Travelcard won't operate gates at many stations
On 31 Jan, 15:35, Matthew Dickinson
wrote: On 30 Jan, 20:30, Mizter T wrote: [x-posted to uk.railway] [original thread on uk.transport.london] On Jan 30, 7:39*pm, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:42:56 +0000, Clive Page wrote: Today I travelled to London on a super off-peak London One-day Travelcard purchased from FCC at Luton Airport Parkway. *I know from past experiences that these tickets operate the gates at all TfL stations that I've used, but consistently fail at those of South Eastern Trains (e.g. Charing Cross and London Bridge). *Today I also found both of our tickets were rejected at London St.Pancras (upper level), which surprised me because EMT operate direct trains to Luton Airport Parkway and ought to have their barriers programmed correctly. *I have no idea whether the fault is with FCC for not encoding the tickets correctly (as the EMT barrier man said) or with the other train companies failing to recognise this fairly new type of ticket. *The rejection code, I think, is 105. It is really annoying to have to spend extra minutes searching out the manned barrier at these stations, where there is often a small queue of people with problems, and then explaining why my ticket fails. *At some time I shall miss a train because of the extra delay. Has anyone else experienced the same problem? *It would be useful to know before I try complaining to the various companies involved. I have not had the same problem but I have not purchased any tickets that might be problematic other than All Line Rovers. I never put the All Line Rover in a NR Ticket gate during any journeys. I always went to the manual gate as I was not prepared to risk having my ticket confiscated or missing a train due to a ticket reject. If you do decide to complain I think you should ask a pointed question about the basis of NR ticket gating and ensuring there is a properly controlled and integrated system of ticket issuing, ticket coding, ticket reading, ticket interpretation and finally ticket rewriting and final validation. *I am not up to date so I may be wrong but I am not aware of any NR funded improvement to the ticket stripe so that the NR portion of it is used for NR journey checking. *I believe the TOCs "botch" their checking around what is encoded on the LUL portion of the stripe. *When you "botch" something that is not yours to "botch" it is no wonder there are problems. The LU system is obviously not designed to cater for the scale of the NR network. Ask them what their policy is, what they have done to avoid or remove passenger inconvenience and how they have ensured that what FCC does is compatible with LUL, DLR and every other TOC? * The problems you quote give you examples to hang off these questions. I would be astonished if you get a coherent and plausible response from any TOC. I would also suggest you ask the same questions of ATOC and Rail Settlement Plan - they are supposed to "control" these sorts of industry wide issues. *If you do get a response then I would love to read it on here - assuming you are willing to share it. With regards to the magnetic stripe being divided between having an LUL portion and an as yet unused BR (now NR) portion - this is something you've mentioned in a good number of past posts, but I'm just wondering if you could possibly flesh it out a little bit - some example questions (which I now realise, having typed them out, sound more like an inquisition as opposed to an opener to a casual discussion!)... (1) what kind of data is held on the LUL portion? (2) what data did the system architects anticipate the BR portion would hold? (3) is the BR portion just a 'blank canvas', or is there some storage structure that any data stored thereon would have to fall into line with? (4) did BR/ does NR do any ticket rewriting at all, or is that basically off-limits as it would otherwise infringe on the LUL portion? (5) to what extent does LUL make use of the capacity for rewriting? (6) pre-privatisation, did BR make any moves towards utilising their portion of the stripe? Of course, they didn't have any gates (did they?). I'm tempted to ask one more... how many people in DfT Rail do you think actually even comprehend this issue?! Given the funding they allocate for gating, perhaps they should! Lastly, how many funny looks do you get from rail staff if you show them an all-lines rail rover? I'm just wondering for how many wouldn't have seen one before. (I hope you don't mind but I've taken the raw liberty of crossposting this to the bear pit that is uk.railway!) A search for Atoc sp0035 brings up a document about RJIS that has some information on magnetic stripe encoding. and searching for rsps3000 is also interesting.. |
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