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Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
[original thread on uk.railway]
[x-posted to ik.transport.london] On May 7, 11:59*pm, Bruce wrote: Quite a surprise except to those who knew about the negotiations: "Tube Lines' shareholders agree £310M buyout deal with TfL Shareholders of London Underground contractor Tube Lines have tonight agreed a buyout deal with Transport for London (TfL) for the PPP arrangement with a price tag of £310M. The dramatic decision follows months of rows between the two parties over the cost of the upgrade and maintenance of the Piccadilly, Northern and Jubilee Lines over the next seven and a half years. However, the parties confirmed that Amey will continue to provide management and maintenance during that period under the existing contract with Tube Lines and that Bechtel will remain for an interim period to ensure a smooth transition of the capital improvement programme into TfL." First Metronet, now Tube Lines. *The effective end of the PPP! Blimey - didn't see that coming, not at all! Dunno where the above came from, but there's more from the FT (if people can access it - still not quite clear on how their pay wall works): http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9ec35512-5...nclick_check=1 or via http://tinyurl.com/2eogf8y A short extract from the FT piece: ---quote--- Chris Bolt, the contract’s arbiter, had been close to ruling that TfL would have to raise £600m in new finance towards the £4.46bn cost of Tube Lines’ maintenance and upgrade work on underground track, stations and trains over the seven and a half years starting from July 1 this year. TfL had been furious at the prospect that it, rather than the contractor, would have to raise the money. The deal to pay the US’s Bechtel and Spain’s Ferrovial £310m for the business had been proposed two weeks ago, according to one person involved. But it had been postponed until after the general election because of rules preventing controversial public sector decisions in the period immediately before a general election. ---/quote--- Of course Tube Lines had been saying that the amount due from TfL / LUL was £6.8bn - LUL had argued that it should be £4.0bn, whilst the PPP arbiter Chris Bolt had issued a draft determination of £4.46bn [1]. When I first read the post I was going to say something like what a coincidence that this should happen on the day when the (political) architect of the PPP, Gordon Brown, got his marching orders - or rather, a somewhat muddled but polite request to vacate the premises once he finishes his drink as time had been called (I think Mr Cameron will assume the Premiership within a few days, with or without a deal with the LibDems). However as the above excerpt from the FT piece makes clear, my reflex thought process totally managed to overlook the crucial issue of the election purdah - the announcement was in fact being delayed until today. Anyhow, the messy, wasteful experiment of PPP seems to have bitten the dust, seemingly quite out of the blue. Let's just hope that money for upgrading the Underground doesn't completely dry up - the primary reason for the big investment programme of recent years was because of the eons of underinvestment (or just a total lack of any investment) in the network. ----- [1] The source for those figures being the Guardian he http://preview.tinyurl.com/yzra69b |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 1:38*am, Mizter T wrote: [snip] Dunno where the above came from, but there's more from the FT (if people can access it - still not quite clear on how their pay wall works): http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9ec35512-5...44feab49a.html or via http://tinyurl.com/2eogf8y Or else search Google News for the title of the piece - "TfL buys last London Tube contractor" (published May 7 at 22:30) - it should be accessible via a Google search for a period at least. |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
Mizter T wrote: [original thread on uk.railway] [x-posted to ik.transport.london] On May 7, 11:59*pm, Bruce wrote: Quite a surprise except to those who knew about the negotiations: "Tube Lines' shareholders agree £310M buyout deal with TfL Shareholders of London Underground contractor Tube Lines have tonight agreed a buyout deal with Transport for London (TfL) for the PPP arrangement with a price tag of £310M. Let's see if I've got this right. The Tories are, in effect, nationalising a private sector setup that Labour created... My brain hurts!!! |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On Fri, 7 May 2010 17:38:24 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote: [original thread on uk.railway] [x-posted to ik.transport.london] Thanks for that, Mizter T. I remembered I should have cross-posted it just after pressing the "Send" button. Too little sleep. :-( |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 9:15*am, solar penguin wrote: Mizter T wrote: [original thread on uk.railway] [x-posted to ik.transport.london] On May 7, 11:59*pm, Bruce wrote: Quite a surprise except to those who knew about the negotiations: "Tube Lines' shareholders agree £310M buyout deal with TfL Shareholders of London Underground contractor Tube Lines have tonight agreed a buyout deal with Transport for London (TfL) for the PPP arrangement with a price tag of £310M. Let's see if I've got this right. The Tories are, in effect, nationalising a private sector setup that Labour created... My brain hurts!!! Not so much "the Tories" as just the Tory Mayor, and he's probably simply going with the flow and subscribing to the line from TfL (Transport Commissioner Peter Hendy et al) that PPP was a general pain in the arse. Remember one of his other big things he bangs on about is "taxpayer value (for money)" - given the (draft) determination from the PPP arbiter it looks like it simply makes financial sense for TfL to buy up Tube Lines if they can, and they could, as the owners were willing to sell - not least because after the PPP arbiter's much lower determination of money due to them from LUL, it became rather less worthwhile being in the infraco business in the first place. Two further things to note - one is that the new Tories are apparently rather less wedded to PFI schemes (and by extension PPP) - ideology no longer appears to trump all - this seems to be a pragmatic approach based on the real-world experience that PFI often doesn't deliver value for money, and quite often delivers quite the opposite. (We shall see what they do in government though.) The second point is that Livingstone, were he still mayor, would undoubtedly have absolutely leapt at this opportunity too. The Ken and Boris positions on PPP are pretty much the same - Boris has pretty much just continued Ken's approach to it all. (Also look at TfL's purchase of Tramtrack Croydon Ltd, the 'owner' of Tramlink in '08 - this was all set up under Ken's mayoralty but actually completed just after Boris got in - however Boris professed his approval as an example of VFM.) I dunno whether this deal would have needed approval from central government, i.e. the Treasury and/or DfT, and so when this approval would have been sought (i.e. before or during the election campaign), but another poster - D7666/ Nick - suggests (in the uk.railway iteration of this thread) that this idea had been doing the rounds for some time, so I'd guess they had some idea - and id necessary had given it at least their provisional blessing - some time ago. Nonetheless, a bit embarrassing for Gordon Brown - though I can't imagine he would have been petulant enough to try and block it (indeed, it's gone through so it would seem not), not least because it simply makes financial sense - but it'd be interesting to know if it was somehow delayed so that it didn't come out until after the election... |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 10:45*am, Bruce wrote: On Fri, 7 May 2010 17:38:24 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T wrote: [original thread on uk.railway] [x-posted to ik.transport.london] Or indeed *UK*.transport.london (as opposed to IK !) Thanks for that, Mizter T. *I remembered I should have cross-posted it just after pressing the "Send" button. *Too little sleep. *:-( No problem - you were very on the ball to pick this up - I was just make sure the good news was propagated to one and all ASAP! |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On Sat, 8 May 2010 02:58:03 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote: On May 8, 10:45*am, Bruce wrote: On Fri, 7 May 2010 17:38:24 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T wrote: [original thread on uk.railway] [x-posted to ik.transport.london] Or indeed *UK*.transport.london (as opposed to IK !) Thanks for that, Mizter T. *I remembered I should have cross-posted it just after pressing the "Send" button. *Too little sleep. *:-( No problem - you were very on the ball to pick this up My sources alerted me earlier in the day, but I couldn't say anything until it was released to the press. The shenanigans around Tim O'Toole's proposed appointment to Tube Lines told me several weeks ago that something was afoot, so I delved, and delved, and found out that something was going on, but no-one could tell me what - they know it will go straight to uk.r (and to uk.t.l if I remember!). So my antenna have been twitching for a few weeks now ... ;-) - I was just make sure the good news was propagated to one and all ASAP! Good news indeed. Very good news! |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On 8 May, 11:16, Bruce wrote:
Good news indeed. *Very good news! In real terms, what difference will this make? |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 12:01*pm, Paul Corfield wrote: On Sat, 08 May 2010 11:16:46 +0100, Bruce wrote: On Sat, 8 May 2010 02:58:03 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T wrote: No problem - you were very on the ball to pick this up He was? Well, I hadn't come across any suggestion of it - I'm not even remotely in the loop of course. My sources alerted me earlier in the day, but I couldn't say anything until it was released to the press. Given that there was an article in the Times which someone at Tube Lines sent to me at work before 8am yesterday morning what was it that you couldn't say? The Times article was embargoed because of the election AIUI. I was called at 2135 last night to say the deal had gone through and Paul Waugh stuck something up on the Standard website at 2153. A copy of the internal notice and TfL Press Release were posted to a Yahoo group I belong to before 2230 last night. The shenanigans around Tim O'Toole's proposed appointment to Tube Lines told me several weeks ago that something was afoot, so I delved, and delved, and found out that something was going on, but no-one could tell me what - they know it will go straight to uk.r (and to uk.t.l if I remember!). *So my antenna have been twitching for a few weeks now ... ;-) Oh really. *Only weeks. *Behind the times as usual then. Good news indeed. *Very good news! Well if you want to see people like me sacked then yes I suppose so. Peoples' livelihoods are all wrapped up in this you know. In and of itself that's not really a strong defence of the current arrangements that appear to be widely viewed as rather flawed, and that's a broad opinion that I think it's fair to say that you yourself have voiced a number of times beforehand (I don't want to misrepresent your views though). I do of course realise that this is all rather close to the bone - we know about the 'efficiency savings' that happened when Metronet got subsumed into the LU structure as a result of duplication being cut out - and I would hope that LU realise they've got an asset in you (and others) and that there aren't going to be any compulsory redundancies as a result of the subsequent reorganisation. |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On Sat, 8 May 2010, Mizter T wrote:
On May 8, 10:45*am, Bruce wrote: On Fri, 7 May 2010 17:38:24 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T wrote: [original thread on uk.railway] [x-posted to ik.transport.london] Or indeed *UK*.transport.london (as opposed to IK !) Would ik.transport.london be restricted to discussing the GWR and the Thames Tunnel? tom -- made up languages, delusions, skin diseases and unaided human flight |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
In message . li
Tom Anderson wrote: On Sat, 8 May 2010, Mizter T wrote: On May 8, 10:45*am, Bruce wrote: On Fri, 7 May 2010 17:38:24 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T wrote: [original thread on uk.railway] [x-posted to ik.transport.london] Or indeed *UK*.transport.london (as opposed to IK !) Would ik.transport.london be restricted to discussing the GWR and the Thames Tunnel? I think you'd get away with adding the Metropolitan Line. -- Graeme Wall This address not read, substitute trains for rail Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/ |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
In message
Mizter T wrote: [snip] Nonetheless, a bit embarrassing for Gordon Brown - though I can't imagine he would have been petulant enough to try and block it (indeed, it's gone through so it would seem not), not least because it simply makes financial sense - but it'd be interesting to know if it was somehow delayed so that it didn't come out until after the election... I doubt whether Brown has given it any thought at all, after all he's had other, more inportant, things on his mind lately. -- Graeme Wall This address not read, substitute trains for rail Transport Miscellany at www.greywall.demon.co.uk/rail Photo galleries at http://graeme-wall.fotopic.net/ |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
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Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 1:00*pm, Graeme wrote: Mizter T wrote: [snip] Nonetheless, a bit embarrassing for Gordon Brown - though I can't imagine he would have been petulant enough to try and block it (indeed, it's gone through so it would seem not), not least because it simply makes financial sense - but it'd be interesting to know if it was somehow delayed so that it didn't come out until after the election... I doubt whether Brown has given it any thought at all, after all he's had other, more inportant, things on his mind lately. True. |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 1:38*am, Mizter T wrote: On May 7, 11:59*pm, Bruce wrote: Quite a surprise except to those who knew about the negotiations: "Tube Lines' shareholders agree £310M buyout deal with TfL Shareholders of London Underground contractor Tube Lines have tonight agreed a buyout deal with Transport for London (TfL) for the PPP arrangement with a price tag of £310M. The dramatic decision follows months of rows between the two parties over the cost of the upgrade and maintenance of the Piccadilly, Northern and Jubilee Lines over the next seven and a half years. However, the parties confirmed that Amey will continue to provide management and maintenance during that period under the existing contract with Tube Lines and that Bechtel will remain for an interim period to ensure a smooth transition of the capital improvement programme into TfL." First Metronet, now Tube Lines. *The effective end of the PPP! Blimey - didn't see that coming, not at all! More from Tom Edwards of BBC London: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mindthega...inning_of.html or via http://tinyurl.com/2w8w6xx He quite reasonably asks where TfL will find the £310 million from to buy Tube Lines, given that TfL said they were going to struggle finding the £400 or so million for the Tube Lines funding gap (as determined by the PPP arbiter). Wouldn't be a massive surprise to hear that some of the Underground network's upgrades will be put on ice, given the already stretched state of TfL's finances - given the state of (central govt) public finances (which TfL is heavily reliant on), things aren't about to get any easier any time soon. |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
He quite reasonably asks where TfL will find the £310 million from to buy Tube Lines, given that TfL said they were going to struggle finding the £400 or so million for the Tube Lines funding gap (as determined by the PPP arbiter). Surely TfL weren't expected to pay the £4.46bn upfront for a 7 year programme! The £400m shortfall was on top of the £4bn TfL had budgeted and were willing to pay for the infrastructure works. Surely the £310m would simply come from this years payment to Tubelines for their work, AIUI. |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 2:40*pm, "Willms" wrote: Am Sat, 8 May 2010 11:01:06 UTC, *schrieb Paul Corfield *auf uk.railway : Good news indeed. *Very good news! Well if you want to see people like me sacked then yes I suppose so. * Why would you lose your job by this PPP thing being taken back? My understanding is that Mr C sits on the LU side of relations between LU and the infracos, or at the least Tube Lines. (I dunno to what extent LU 'negotiates' with the now TfL-owned infraco formerly known as Metronet [1] these days, IYSWIM - however I think that at least some of the old contractual relationships continue to exist.) Peoples' livelihoods are all wrapped up in this you know. * A surprising statement at the end of your angry explanations that you knew about this earlier than our dear "Bruce". I don't see why you say that, and I don't understand what you're trying to get at either. It seems to me that all Paul C was doing was just pointing out that Bruce's oft-favoured stance as self-proclaimed possessor of secretive knowledge isn't always all it's cracked up to be. As for me, well I'll merrily admit I know nowt about nowt ;) ----- [1] The legal identity of LU-owned infraco formerly known as Metronet now being "LUL Nominee BCV Limited" and "LUL Nominee SSL Limited". |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 2:34*pm, Benamin wrote: He quite reasonably asks where TfL will find the £310 million from to buy Tube Lines, given that TfL said they were going to struggle finding the £400 or so million for the Tube Lines funding gap (as determined by the PPP arbiter). Surely TfL weren't expected to pay the £4.46bn upfront for a 7 year programme! [...] Well no, of course not! [...] The £400m shortfall was on top of the £4bn TfL had budgeted and were willing to pay for the infrastructure works. Surely the £310m would simply come from this years payment to Tubelines for their work, AIUI. That doesn't follow - the payments from LU to Tube Lines are for work to be done. If that money is simply diverted to the current owners of Tube Lines so as to pay for the purchase of the company (i.e. to pay for the shares), then that money won't be available for the newly LU- owned Tube Lines to use to pay for those works. Therefore if that money would simply come from this years payment, then £310 million less worth of work would be done on the relevant part of the network (Jubilee, Northern and Piccadilly lines). However, one does rather suspect that this will contribute towards a scaling back of the upgrade programme. Boris might well argue with the to-be-newly installed Tory Chancellor Osbourne that this PPP mess was not of his (or indeed his predecessors) making, but that of central governments, and therefore they should stump up the extra cash - indeed this is more or less what Boris has already argued with the outgoing Labour Chancellor Darling (and whilst things were at an earlier stage, Ken was putting forward such arguments too). However, given the coming age of austerity, I wonder if Boris would really put forward such an argument that strongly given the circumstances - and if he did I suspect it would be done quietly rather than publicly (i.e. loudhailer negotiations would be a ting of the past). That said, it is Boris, so who knows... (Of course all the above is in the context of there being an incoming Tory administration of some sort, but given that that's what's going to happen, I didn't feel the need to add any caveats in. Well, apart from this one!) |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 1:31*pm, Mizter T wrote:
He quite reasonably asks where TfL will find the £310 million from to buy Tube Lines, given that TfL said they were going to struggle finding the £400 or so million for the Tube Lines funding gap (as determined by the PPP arbiter). Wouldn't be a massive surprise to hear that some of the Underground network's upgrades will be put on ice, given the already stretched state of TfL's finances - given the state of (central govt) public finances (which TfL is heavily reliant on), things aren't about to get any easier any time soon. In round figures, as I understood things, when metronet went into TfL there were direct savings of 0.5 million - 1.0 million depending who you listed to just by eliminating the duplicated effort of 2 parties checking each others contracts and works. Proportionately finding 310 million to take in tube lines seems about right. While the circumstances are different - metronet was in admin and tube lines is being brought in before (if) that happens, those costs were still there, they were not a function of collapse but contracts admin on both sides. At least thats how the gossip wet. The problem is one never knows if what you get is rumour and speculation or is a leak by someone who really doesknow the score. -- Nick |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 2:40*pm, "Willms" wrote:
* Why would you lose your job by this PPP thing being taken back? Because there are duplicated job functions on both sides of a contract that oversee those contracts between the parties. Contract is no longer needed as its all in house, job function ceases, jobs cut. -- Nick |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
Everyone should be aware this is not the end of pfi ppp within the
london underground. Powerlink and Connect both remain in place. No doubt someone will post something to the opposite, but I am not aware of any serious rumours about bringing those in house. -- Nick |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 6:35*pm, D7666 wrote: Everyone should be aware this is not the end of pfi ppp within the london underground. Powerlink and Connect both remain in place. No doubt someone will post something to the opposite, but I am not aware of any serious rumours about bringing those in house. Also the Northern line rolling stock is provided by Alstom under a PFI deal (a "whole life train service provision contract" or some such similar thing). The Northern line trains, Powerlink and Connect are all PFI contracts - "PPP" solely refers to the infraco arrangements, UIVMM. |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 6:41*pm, Mizter T wrote:
The Northern line trains, Powerlink and Connect are all PFI contracts - "PPP" solely refers to the infraco arrangements, UIVMM. Indeed, but not everybody understands that. -- Nick |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 6:31*pm, D7666 wrote: On May 8, 1:31*pm, Mizter T wrote: He quite reasonably asks where TfL will find the £310 million from to buy Tube Lines, given that TfL said they were going to struggle finding the £400 or so million for the Tube Lines funding gap (as determined by the PPP arbiter). Wouldn't be a massive surprise to hear that some of the Underground network's upgrades will be put on ice, given the already stretched state of TfL's finances - given the state of (central govt) public finances (which TfL is heavily reliant on), things aren't about to get any easier any time soon. In round figures, as I understood things, when metronet went into TfL there were direct savings of 0.5 million - 1.0 million depending who you listed to just by eliminating the duplicated effort of 2 parties checking each others contracts and works. Proportionately finding 310 million to take in tube lines seems about right. While the circumstances are different - metronet was in admin and tube lines is being brought in before (if) that happens, those costs were still there, they were not a function of collapse but contracts admin on both sides. At least thats how the gossip wet. The problem is one never knows if what you get is rumour and speculation or is a leak by someone who really doesknow the score. OK, thanks for that. The PPP contracts sounds like they were truly nightmarish in their complexity. What does interest me is to what extent the PPP contractual arrangements remained in place, albeit perhaps in a vestigial sense, w.r.t. the in-house (LU-owned) Metronet, as I understand they did. Furthermore now that Tube Lines is coming in- house too, I wonder how much of the old PPP arrangements will remain, and to what extent it can be dismantled - bearing in mind the whole setup was created by central govt, had a complex legal background (I assume there must have been some sort of statutory basis to it all), and had a regulator of sorts in the person of the PPP arbiter - my guess is that TfL can't just unilaterally end it (and indeed there might be a few elements of it that are actually beneficial, even if it's all internal dealings now). Of course the expert on such matters here rather has other things on his mind given the context of it all - I imagine all on here who appreciate his many insightful contributions will hope that things will work out for the best when the dust settles. |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 6:47*pm, D7666 wrote: On May 8, 6:41*pm, Mizter T wrote: The Northern line trains, Powerlink and Connect are all PFI contracts - "PPP" solely refers to the infraco arrangements, UIVMM. Indeed, but not everybody understands that. Yes, fair point. I think that politicos use have used the phrase "public private partnership" in a wide variety of contexts, referring to all sorts of things (e.g. hospitals), not least because it sounds warmer and rather less harsh and thrustingly Thatcherite than "Private Finance Initiative" does - however, UIVMM, in a strict sense (i.e. what was actually written on the legal documents) PPP was only ever used in relation to the LU infraco arrangements... or am I wrong? |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 6:54*pm, Mizter T wrote:
What does interest me is to what extent the PPP contractual arrangements remained in place, albeit perhaps in a vestigial sense, w.r.t. the in-house (LU-owned) Metronet, as I understand they did. ex metronet is now ''lu cmo'' (chief maintenance officer) : as far as performance targets on items such as time to fix faults etc, the same criteria remain in place but not even wooden dollars are transferred[*] now. The rumours all suggest the metrics were left in place for cmo to compare with tube lines. How long things will last now is anyones guess. Maintenance performance will still have to be measured - it must be - and I for one do think a form of measurement needs to remain - but how or even if they re-invent the wheel or continue with the existing mechanism without money transfer I have no idea. [*] this is an example of the duplicated people working on contracts - someone from the infraco side has to do their calculation, someone from the lu side. No need to do that now. -- Nick |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 6:58*pm, Mizter T wrote:
actually written on the legal documents) PPP was only ever used in relation to the LU infraco arrangements... or am I wrong? Dunno. I fall in the category of ''understanding the basic difference but not the detail''. -- Nick |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
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Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 7:08*pm, D7666 wrote: On May 8, 6:58*pm, Mizter T wrote: actually written on the legal documents) PPP was only ever used in relation to the LU infraco arrangements... or am I wrong? Dunno. I fall in the category of ''understanding the basic difference but not the detail''. Sorry, that wasn't clear, I was kinda throwing that out to the wider uk.r and utl readerships rather than grilling you on the minutiae! |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On May 8, 7:06*pm, D7666 wrote:
On May 8, 6:54*pm, Mizter T wrote: *What does interest me is to what extent the PPP contractual arrangements remained in place, albeit perhaps in a vestigial sense, w.r.t. the in-house (LU-owned) Metronet, as I understand they did. ex metronet is now ''lu cmo'' (chief maintenance officer) : *as far as performance targets on items such as time to fix faults etc, the same criteria remain in place but not even wooden dollars are transferred [*] now. The rumours all suggest the metrics were left *in place for cmo to compare with tube lines. How long things will last now is anyones guess. Maintenance performance will still have to be measured - it must be - and I for one do think a form of measurement needs to remain - but how or even if they re-invent the wheel or continue with the existing mechanism without money transfer I have no idea. [*] this is an example of the duplicated people working on contracts - someone from the infraco side has to do their calculation, someone from the lu side. No need to do that now. -- Nick Indeed, from an OpsCo point of view, there is now more of an attutide of - keep things running and more bending of the rules taking place (sometimes shockingly). It's quite hard to adjust for a lot of people in the Service Control area that I'm in as only half the people were around pre PPP, I did hear that the Power PFI nearly came to an end when they had to replace some expensive kit in every substation! And quite how the Connect PFI is still going baffles me too |
Newsflash: TfL buys out Tube Lines!
On 08/05/2010 18:58, Mizter T wrote:
On May 8, 6:47 pm, wrote: On May 8, 6:41 pm, Mizter wrote: The Northern line trains, Powerlink and Connect are all PFI contracts - "PPP" solely refers to the infraco arrangements, UIVMM. Indeed, but not everybody understands that. Yes, fair point. I think that politicos use have used the phrase "public private partnership" in a wide variety of contexts, referring to all sorts of things (e.g. hospitals), not least because it sounds warmer and rather less harsh and thrustingly Thatcherite than "Private Finance Initiative" does - however, UIVMM, in a strict sense (i.e. what was actually written on the legal documents) PPP was only ever used in relation to the LU infraco arrangements... or am I wrong? I don't about terminology used within TfL/LU/HMG etc, but "PPP" is certainly used generically worldwide for this kind of thing. eg Turkey: http://www.ppp.org.tr/ -- Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK |
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