On 26 May, 14:41, lonelytraveller
wrote:
On 25 May, 13:59, Paul Corfield wrote:



On May 25, 12:35*pm, Mizter T wrote:

On May 25, 12:14*pm, "Dr. Sunil" wrote:

Would it be possible for LO to run services right round to Shepherd's
Bush via Crystal Palace? ITSM there are through platforms at Clapham
Junction already used by Southern services towards Watford and beyond.

It would be possible - and I think Paul C recently said that it was an
idea is on TfL London Rail's radar (but that's a *very different*
thing from it actually happening).

It was a reference to the May Modern Railways which has a London
Overground feature in it. There was a quote saying TfL were
considering extending the CP journeys to Clapham Junction via Balham.
They'd terminate in Platform 17 (I assume that makes sense to those
who are familiar with CJ). There was no more detail than this in the
article. *As a non expert on the rail network south of the Thames I
couldn't say how feasible or otherwise the TfL idea actually is.

--
Paul C
via Google

Crash course on South London Railways (this refers to lines, not
current train use)
-Main Terminuses
---Blackfriars has Brighton Lines and the Sutton Line
---London Bridge has Brighton Lines, North Kent Lines, and Inner South
London Line
-----The Inner South London Line is a physically distinct line from
the mainlines, unlike the Outer South London line.
---Victoria has Brighton Lines and Mid Kent Lines. (the station is
physically split in half, with two distinct styles, as well)
---Waterloo has Windsor Lines and South Western Lines
-Wide rail corridor between Waterloo & Clapham Junction
---Brighton Lines from Victoria join it.
---Splits at Clapham Junction to (from north to south)
-----(a) The Windsor Lines
-----(b) The South Western Lines
-----(c) The Brighton Lines
-The Victoria-Brighton Lines split in two at Balham and meet again at
Selhurst Junction. The two alternative paths are
---(a) via West Norwood Junction (and Crystal Palace)
---(b) via Streatham Junction
-The Mid Kent Lines split at Brixton and meet again at Beckenham
Junction. The two alternative paths are
---(a) via Loughborough Junction (and Peckham Rye)
---(b) via Herne Hill (and Penge)
-The Sutton Line
---intersects all four routes to Victoria at (north to south)
------(a) Loughborough Junction
------(b) Herne Hill
------(c) Tulse Hill via a short branch to West Norwood Junction
------(d) Streatham Junction
---terminates in a "d" shaped loop between (clockwise)
------(a) Streatham Junction
------(b) Sutton
------(c) Wimbledon
------(d) Streatham Junction again
-Wide rail corridor between London Bridge and a point west of Surrey
Quays
---Split at London Bridge into (north to south)
----(a) North Kent lines to Cannon Street
----(b) North Kent lines to Charing Cross
----(c) Brighton lines to Blackfriars
----(d) terminating North Kent & Brighton lines
---The Brighton lines are in the wrong place. Thameslink 2000 builds a
new flyunder for them to reach Blackfriars without crossing the tracks
of the Kent lines.
---Split near Surrey Quays into (north to south)
------(a) North Kent lines, which quickly split again into (north to
south)
---------(i) route via Greenwich
---------(ii) other routes - next station = New Cross Gate
------(b) Brighton Lines - next station = New Cross
------(c) Inner South London Line - next station = South Bermondsey
-The London Bridge to Brighton lines meet the Victoria to Brighton
lines at Selhurst Junction
-The Inner South London line
---splits at Peckham Rye into
------(a) the main Inner South London Line to Clapham Junction
------(b) a branch to Tulse Hill (this is currently used to run a
local Z shaped service between London Bridge and Croydon)
-ELL
---phase 1 uses the slow Brighton lines. The curve to Crystal Palace
is an extra curve, not one of the routes listed above.
---phase 2 uses the main Inner South London Line
-All routes are 2 track apart from
---(a) wide rail corridors
------(i) between Waterloo & Clapham Junction
------(ii) between London Bridge & a point west of Surrey Quays
---(b) 4 track mainlines
------(i) The South Western lines
------(ii) The Brighton Lines from Clapham Junction to Selhurst
Junction via Streatham Junction
------(iii) The Brighton Lines from London Bridge to Selhurst Junction
------(iv) The North Kent Lines (not via Greenwich)
-The following main routes need four tracks due to usage:
----(a) The South Western lines
--------achieved by a 4 track route
----(b) The Victoria - Brighton lines
--------achieved by a 4 track route and a further 2 track route
----(c) The London Bridge - Brighton lines
--------achieved by a 4 track route
----(d) The Mid Kent lines
--------achieved by two 2 track routes
----(e) The North Kent Lines lines
--------achieved by a a 4 track route and a further 2 track route

The Balham - crystal palace route is the 2 track route forming part of
the Victoria - Brighton lines. You could say this isn't needed as
there is already a 4 track route, and could be reused by the ELL. But
the routes through Tulse hill use part of the 4 track route:
(a) the London Bridge - Croydon Z-shaped route. With ELL phase 1 using
the slow Brighton lines, this route forms a relief line for the trains
that used to use the slow Brighton lines.
(b) the Blackfriars - Sutton line is currently only a local service
for Sutton. With Thameslink 2000, additional trains from Blackfriars
will use this route, and then branch off onto the main 4-track
Victoria-Brighton lines.

So there basically isn't an easy way to free up any capacity for a
Crystal Palace to Anywhere West extension of the ELL.

How about taking over the semi-circular London Bridge to Victoria via
Crystal Palace slots?

On 27 May, 11:25, David Cantrell wrote:
On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 08:13:32PM +0100, Paul Corfield wrote:
I know it is basically impossible to show all the variants but a proper
schematic map which showed the service patterns and perhaps coded them
(I know we've done this debate recently with a certain German gentleman)
would be an aid to absorbing how the network works and more particularly
links between certain places.

It could be done with a schematic map which changed with time. *One day,
I'll learn Flash and maybe put something like that together.

--
David Cantrell | top google result for "internet beard fetish club"

* * There are many different types of sausages. *The best are
* * from the north of England. *The wurst are from Germany.
* * * -- seen in alt.2eggs...

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