On Jun 6, 11:40*pm, D7666 wrote:
On Jun 6, 10:45*pm, Tom Anderson wrote:

is from 1928? I assumed the story meant the signal box was built in 1928,
not necessarily that all the equipment in it was still original. But i
know nothing of these things.

Hold on, i've just looked at the link Nick posted. It's not from 1928 -
it's from 1926! Yikes!

Ther are others the saem

Hammersmith 1931

http://www.wbsframe.mste.co.uk/public/Hammersmith.html

and other cabins like Rayners Lane, Harrow on Hill still manned power
frames.

*Almost* the entire underground except Central line and east end of
Jubilee (JLE) is on V-style remote control frames.

--
Nick

Hammersmith, Whitechapel, the Rickmansworth area or Rickmansworth
still have lever frames. Harrow has a push pull frame, with remote
IMRs. Rayners, the rest of Rickmansworth, Upminster, Barking, Amersham
are buttons that operate IMRs

Then of course most of the network still uses IMRs (Interlocking
Machine Rooms), remotely operated lever frames, except the Central,
new bits of the Jubilee and Terminal Five! Some of the frames are
ancient and have just been converted to IMR, even if it's operated
from a control room, by button or computer.
Then of course, there can't be train numbers with 8 or 9 on many lines!

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 22:45:02 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, David Hansen wrote:

On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 15:58:44 +0100 someone who may be john wright
wrote this:-

"When there was only one line for the whole of London" What can that
refer to? Neither telephones nor rail lines makes much sense in this
context.

Indeed.

The whole sentence is "At its nerve centre is a signal box first
fitted in 1928 ? a relic from the first days of the network when
there was only one line for the whole of London."

I suspect that it is just bad journalism, mixing up things the
journalist was told. As background the journalist may have been told
that at one time Edgware Road was on the only underground railway
line [1] not just in London but in the world. However, that was a
long time before 1928.

The photograph shows a miniature lever frame box typical of the era,
particularly in London and SE England.

Hang on, so that levery pipe-organ thing the guy in the photo is playing
is from 1928? I assumed the story meant the signal box was built in 1928,
not necessarily that all the equipment in it was still original. But i
know nothing of these things.

Hold on, i've just looked at the link Nick posted. It's not from 1928 -
it's from 1926! Yikes!

The lever frame might be from the 1920s but there has been no
confirmation yet whether the faults lie in there or in the electrical
gubbins elsewhere into which it is plumbed and which could be of
rather more recent origin.

On Jun 7, 6:22*am, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 22:45:02 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:



On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, David Hansen wrote:

On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 15:58:44 +0100 someone who may be john wright
wrote this:-

"When there was only one line for the whole of London" What can that
refer to? Neither telephones nor rail lines makes much sense in this
context.

Indeed.

The whole sentence is "At its nerve centre is a signal box first
fitted in 1928 ? a relic from the first days of the network when
there was only one line for the whole of London."

I suspect that it is just bad journalism, mixing up things the
journalist was told. As background the journalist may have been told
that at one time Edgware Road was on the only underground railway
line [1] not just in London but in the world. However, that was a
long time before 1928.

The photograph shows a miniature lever frame box typical of the era,
particularly in London and SE England.

Hang on, so that levery pipe-organ thing the guy in the photo is playing
is from 1928? I assumed the story meant the signal box was built in 1928,
not necessarily that all the equipment in it was still original. But i
know nothing of these things.

Hold on, i've just looked at the link Nick posted. It's not from 1928 -
it's from 1926! Yikes!

The lever frame might be from the 1920s but there has been no
confirmation yet whether the faults lie in there or in the electrical
gubbins elsewhere into which it is plumbed and which could be of
rather more recent origin.

The only other work that has been done is rewiring and the electrical
kit such as relays. Many of these are refurbished by LU REW. Then
there's things like speed control relays that were put in after
Moorgate crash (mostly), but I don't know of any big failures there/

What has failed a fair few times is the new electric points at Praed
Street!

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 02:29:14 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be dave
wrote this:-

What has failed a fair few times is the new electric points at Praed
Street!

Interesting to know. An earlier poster said that it may be new
equipment which is more prone to failure.

I am reminded of the axle counters around the Severn Tunnel which
couldn't cope with sunshine, leading to repeated failures and
eventually a crash which appears to have been caused by the axle
counters being reset without proper precautions (though this cannot
be concluded as the witch-hunt atmosphere of the time (lessened but
not totally gone these days I gather) meant that people are not
likely to admit to mistakes).

Obviously old signalling equipment could and can be affected by the
sun too, but rodding runs have ways of dealing with this and wire
adjusters are provided for signals.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010, Charles Ellson wrote:

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010 22:45:02 +0100, Tom Anderson
wrote:

On Sun, 6 Jun 2010, David Hansen wrote:

On Sun, 06 Jun 2010 15:58:44 +0100 someone who may be john wright
wrote this:-

"When there was only one line for the whole of London" What can that
refer to? Neither telephones nor rail lines makes much sense in this
context.

Indeed.

The whole sentence is "At its nerve centre is a signal box first
fitted in 1928 ? a relic from the first days of the network when
there was only one line for the whole of London."

I suspect that it is just bad journalism, mixing up things the
journalist was told. As background the journalist may have been told
that at one time Edgware Road was on the only underground railway
line [1] not just in London but in the world. However, that was a
long time before 1928.

The photograph shows a miniature lever frame box typical of the era,
particularly in London and SE England.

Hang on, so that levery pipe-organ thing the guy in the photo is playing
is from 1928? I assumed the story meant the signal box was built in 1928,
not necessarily that all the equipment in it was still original. But i
know nothing of these things.

Hold on, i've just looked at the link Nick posted. It's not from 1928 -
it's from 1926! Yikes!

The lever frame might be from the 1920s but there has been no
confirmation yet whether the faults lie in there or in the electrical
gubbins elsewhere into which it is plumbed and which could be of rather
more recent origin.

Indeed. I should clarify that my 'Yikes' was not 'Yikes! That's
terrible!', but 'Yikes! That's amazing!'.

tom

--
That's the problem with google. You can usually find what you're looking
for with a fairly simple search. It's knowing *which* fairly simple
search out of the millions of possible fairly simple searches you need
to use to find it ;-) -- Paul D

On Jun 7, 10:29*am, dave wrote:

Then
there's things like speed control relays that were put in after
Moorgate crash (mostly),


Errr that is misleading.

Speed control relays have been around on LT / LU for eons, they are
nothing new introduced post Moorgate.

Moorgate introduced TETS or whatever its called - Train Entering
Terminal Station - which simply adds more timing relays and more train
stops as any passenger train approach any buffers stops.

--
Nick

On 6 Jun., 16:58, john wright wrote:


"When there was only one line for the whole of London" What can that
refer to? Neither telephones nor rail lines makes much sense in this
context.

When the various "lines" that now form the London Underground were
built, they were separate railways and were referred to by their
names, ie C&SLR etc. I assume that the practice of calling them lines
must have come in when they were all part of London Underground. Does
anybody know when the term "line" first came into use in this context

On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 04:56:16 -0700 (PDT) someone who may be D7666
wrote this:-

Speed control relays have been around on LT / LU for eons, they are
nothing new introduced post Moorgate.

Holding a signal and/or train stop at danger and only releasing it
if a train operates track circuit(s) in more than a specified time,
thus proving the train is going slowly enough, was certainly done
before the crash at Moorgate. Sharp curves and approaching signals
with a short overlap are examples. Presumably the way the front of
trains used to enter platforms while the rear of the previous train
was leaving [1] is another example. However, this was greatly
extended after Moorgate to cover dead end tunnels. The original
posting was not so much misleading as incomplete.


[1] IIRC the equipment was fitted as part of 1930s schemes and
removed during the "managing decline" era of the 1970s when it was
thought trains would not need to be run close together again. There
still seems to be some of this, but not as extensive as it once was.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000...#pt3-pb3-l1g54

In message
ups.com
amogles wrote:

On 6 Jun., 16:58, john wright wrote:


"When there was only one line for the whole of London" What can that
refer to? Neither telephones nor rail lines makes much sense in this
context.

When the various "lines" that now form the London Underground were
built, they were separate railways and were referred to by their
names, ie C&SLR etc. I assume that the practice of calling them lines
must have come in when they were all part of London Underground. Does
anybody know when the term "line" first came into use in this context

There was a very interesting early history book about the London
Underground called "Rails through the clay" by Croombe and Jackson,
which recounted how an American tycoon called Yerkes, who was a bit of
a wide boy, but he also funded the biggest astronomical telescope of
his day and had it called after himself, built the nucleus of the
London Underground. It was originally going to be cable-hauled, hence
the low profile. They were all nominally separate "lines" (an American
term) though in fact all owned by Yerkes, and he also introduced the
terms "northbound" and "southbound" to indicate direction of travel,
which also have more an American sound than British.

Michael Bell

--

"amogles" wrote in message
...
On 6 Jun., 16:58, john wright wrote:


"When there was only one line for the whole of London" What can that
refer to? Neither telephones nor rail lines makes much sense in this
context.

When the various "lines" that now form the London Underground were
built, they were separate railways and were referred to by their
names, ie C&SLR etc. I assume that the practice of calling them lines
must have come in when they were all part of London Underground. Does
anybody know when the term "line" first came into use in this context

'Line' to refer to a railway company was certainly in use by 1895: 'The
Importance of Being Earnest' - Jack Worthing had been left in a handbag in
the Left Luggage Office at Victotia station - 'The Brighton Line' "The line
is immaterial" (Can't you just hear Dame Edith Evans?). The Evening News
coined the name 'Bakerloo Line' as shorthand for 'The Baker Street and
Waterloo Railway'

Peter