On Jun 15, 10:54*pm, E27002 wrote:
On Jun 15, 2:45*pm, Andy wrote:





On Jun 15, 10:35*pm, E27002 wrote:

On Jun 15, 2:21*pm, Andy wrote:

On Jun 15, 10:10*pm, E27002 wrote:

On Jun 15, 1:36*pm, Roland Perry wrote: In message
, at
13:11:10 on Tue, 15 Jun 2010, Andy remarked:

Well, as Crossrail isn't due to open until 2017 even without delays;
it's most likely that the economy will have sufficiently recovered to

.. have collapsed again. A very silly man said he'd put an end to boom
and bust, but he may just as well have said he'd put an end to
moonlight.

use the capacity that will be provided.

Indeed so. *Economic Activity will ebb flow by its very nature.
Politicians can tweak, and ameliorate, but not change. *One may as
well sit by the sea at Bosham and tell the tide to reverse.

And the underlying trend is still that more capacity will be needed;
so to say that it would be OK to delay completion for longer than the
seven years already planned is not a good idea. Unless, of course, you
can predict better than politicians or economists where we will be in
the economic cycle once the line opens.

:-) I make no such claim.

Well, you did claim

"Crossrail would not come into its own until there is a complete
economic recovery. *That is likely to be some
years away."

Crossrail is already needed to relieve the eastern end of the Central
line, recession or not.

I did not know that was the case. *In previous recessions the crush on
the TfL Central Line has eased. *Either way, I am a firm believer in
Crossrail, and Thameslink n000, and Chelsea to Hackney, etc., etc.


I think that the passenger numbers (not just on the Central line) have
shown a much smaller drop, if any, than in previous recessions.

As regards the current recession: I do not know when it will end.
However, the underlying issues, tight credit etc. are not easing.
Based on earlier recessions I think this one has to run its course.

According to the numbers, the recession has already ended, but the
deficit still has some way to go

On 15/06/2010 22:10, E27002 wrote:
Economic Activity will ebb flow by its very nature.
Politicians can tweak, and ameliorate, but not change. One may as
well sit by the sea at Bosham and tell the tide to reverse.

There are a lot of Cnuts in the Houses of Parliament.

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 23:18:41 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:

Offset by the EMUs not required to run the normal local service. If
they have any sense the Crossrail tunnel will be full size and any
EMU will fit - one would hope.

They could stick with the 165 DMUs on the Paddington to Reading
locals. It would be very short sighted as they will be 25 years old
when Crossrail opens but any replacement costs a few years later would
not count against the Crossrail budget.

On Jun 15, 11:18*pm, Neil Williams wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:14:30 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote:

Except for the extra Crossrail rolling stock needed to run the extra
twelve(ish) miles in each direction.

Offset by the EMUs not required to run the normal local service. If
they have any sense the Crossrail tunnel will be full size and any
EMU will fit - one would hope.


Except that I doubt Crossrail would want a mixed fleet running through
the central section, so extra Crossrail EMUs would need to be ordered;
remember that the planned signalling system is ERTMS (cheaper to fit
to units designed for it than to cascaded class 319s) and the stock is
likely to have larger doorways than existing EMUs to aid loading and
unloading in the central section.

On Jun 15, 11:18*pm, Neil Williams wrote:

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:14:30 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote:

Except for the extra Crossrail rolling stock needed to run the extra
twelve(ish) miles in each direction.

Offset by the EMUs not required to run the normal local service. If
they have any sense the Crossrail tunnel will be full size and any
EMU will fit - one would hope.

The Crossrail tunnels are going to be 'full size' - 6 metres in
diameter, with space for the OHLE too. However 'any old EMU' won't be
up to the job of a 24tph service in the core section - the trains will
be ATO in this bit, and they'll also need to be designed to cater for
the expected crowds (wide doors, suitable interior etc).

Crossrail is already needed to relieve the eastern end of the Central
line, recession or not.

I did not know that was the case. In previous recessions the crush on
the TfL Central Line has eased.

Is there evidence of much of a drop? Anecdotally, I haven't found the
journey any more pleasant....!

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
.net...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 13:14:30 -0700 (PDT), Andy wrote:
Except for the extra Crossrail rolling stock needed to run the extra
twelve(ish) miles in each direction.

Offset by the EMUs not required to run the normal local service. If they
have any sense the Crossrail tunnel will be full size and any EMU will
fit - one would hope.

It is full 'UK main line 'size - (best make that clear before people start
asking for double decker trains that won't fit any of the extensions over NR
or into Heathrow)...

Paul S

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:49:25 +0100
"Paul Scott" wrote:
It is full 'UK main line 'size - (best make that clear before people start
asking for double decker trains that won't fit any of the extensions over NR
or into Heathrow)...

There is always talk talk talk of increasing loading gauge , yet whenever
any new track is built or rebuilt its always to the UK loading gauge.
Talk about lack of foresight.

B2003

On 16 June, 11:01, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 10:49:25 +0100

"Paul Scott" wrote:
It is full 'UK main line 'size - (best make that clear before people start
asking for double decker trains that won't fit any of the extensions over NR
or into Heathrow)...

There is always talk talk talk of increasing loading gauge , yet whenever
any new track is built or rebuilt its always to the UK loading gauge.
Talk about lack of foresight.


The central London tunnels will be built to an increased loading
gauge. The planned running tunnel diameter of 6.2m is nearly as large
as the 6.3m RER tunnels in Paris and certainly big enough for most
continental stock.

Information about the tunnels is he

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/company/c...els-contracts1

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 01:11:10PM -0700, Andy wrote:

Well, as Crossrail isn't due to open until 2017 even without delays;
it's most likely that the economy will have sufficiently recovered to
use the capacity that will be provided.

The capacity could be used RIGHT NOW, judging by the crowds on London's
publis transport even during this recession.

--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

You can't spell "slaughter" without "laughter"