Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

[x-posted to uk.transport.london]

D7666 wrote:
This one been mentioned yet ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LnDhMy-axw


Open air Moorgate, and kettle freights passing Farringdon, and never
mind the music.

This is well worth a gander - ten minutes of various scenes of old,
not just trains but lots of station scenes and a few street scenes
too.

The KX porters with the trolleys of passenger luggage is one of many
notable things. Reassuring to see that the front of KX station still
looked like a building site back then - but actually I don't think the
motley collection of buildings (best seen at 6:57) had anything to do
with construction - had this rather unkempt mess just sort of
developed by default rather than design over the years?

What's the significance if any of the shot of the house and buildings
on that narrow plot of land at 5:10 - and also where exactly is that,
a junction off Pentonville Rd (with Kings Cross Road perhaps)? I can't
quite work out the lie of the land there.

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On Jun 16, 3:45*pm, Mizter T wrote:
[x-posted to uk.transport.london]

D7666 wrote:
This one been mentioned yet ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LnDhMy-axw

Open air Moorgate, and kettle freights passing Farringdon, and never
mind the music.

This is well worth a gander - ten minutes of various scenes of old,
not just trains but lots of station scenes and a few street scenes
too.

The KX porters with the trolleys of passenger luggage is one of many
notable things. Reassuring to see that the front of KX station still
looked like a building site back then - but actually I don't think the
motley collection of buildings (best seen at 6:57) had anything to do
with construction - had this rather unkempt mess just sort of
developed by default rather than design over the years?

What's the significance if any of the shot of the house and buildings
on that narrow plot of land at 5:10 - and also where exactly is that,
a junction off Pentonville Rd (with Kings Cross Road perhaps)? I can't
quite work out the lie of the land there.

Thank you D7666 for posting. This video is lovely, so intense. It
easy to forget just how much steam could achieve.

Mizter T. I recall Kings Cross from the late 1960s, early 70s. It
was a mess with bits everywhere - York Rd, the Suburban Side, The
Metropolitan in front, and so on. It was hard to see the station from
Euston Rd with the jumble of buildings in front. BUT, it had
tremendous atmosphere. Many lunchtimes, on the way to a pub lunch, I
would pass the front of the mainline station and hear the diesels
throbbing, accompanied by their distinct aroma.

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:45:03 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

This is well worth a gander - ten minutes of various scenes of old,
not just trains but lots of station scenes and a few street scenes
too.

The KX porters with the trolleys of passenger luggage is one of many
notable things. Reassuring to see that the front of KX station still
looked like a building site back then - but actually I don't think the
motley collection of buildings (best seen at 6:57) had anything to do
with construction - had this rather unkempt mess just sort of
developed by default rather than design over the years?

What's the significance if any of the shot of the house and buildings
on that narrow plot of land at 5:10 - and also where exactly is that,
a junction off Pentonville Rd (with Kings Cross Road perhaps)? I can't
quite work out the lie of the land there.

Good find! I'm only familiar with "modern" KX, didn't realise what a
mess it was before the current extension at the front.

All the shots of steam locos look very atmospheric but I'm not sure I
would have wanted to exit trains in a cloud of steam and soot every
morning! What must it have been like for the engine crew in the
tunnels with the two trains leaving the station together (9:00)?

That plot of land looks a bit like the triangle between Pentonville Rd
and Grays Inn Rd (looking west-east) but could be Kings Cross Road as
you say - odd to find that 1930s house stuck in the middle!

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On 17 June, 10:43, Ivor The Engine wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:45:03 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T



wrote:
This is well worth a gander - ten minutes of various scenes of old,
not just trains but lots of station scenes and a few street scenes
too.

The KX porters with the trolleys of passenger luggage is one of many
notable things. Reassuring to see that the front of KX station still
looked like a building site back then - but actually I don't think the
motley collection of buildings (best seen at 6:57) had anything to do
with construction - had this rather unkempt mess just sort of
developed by default rather than design over the years?

What's the significance if any of the shot of the house and buildings
on that narrow plot of land at 5:10 - and also where exactly is that,
a junction off Pentonville Rd (with Kings Cross Road perhaps)? I can't
quite work out the lie of the land there.

Good find! * I'm only familiar with "modern" KX, didn't realise what a
mess it was before the current extension at the front.

All the shots of steam locos look very atmospheric but I'm not sure I
would have wanted to exit trains in a cloud of steam and soot every
morning! * What must it have been like for the engine crew in the
tunnels with the two trains leaving the station together (9:00)?

That plot of land looks a bit like the triangle between Pentonville Rd
and Grays Inn Rd (looking west-east) but could be Kings Cross Road as
you say - odd to find that 1930s house stuck in the middle! *

What's the long-term future of the Widened Line platforms at Moorgate
and Barbican. North of the tunnel north of Barbican, the track has
been lifted, and from Barbican southwards the overhead catenary has
been taken down.

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On 17/06/2010 16:47, Dr. Sunil wrote:
On 17 June, 10:43, Ivor The wrote:
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:45:03 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T



wrote:
This is well worth a gander - ten minutes of various scenes of old,
not just trains but lots of station scenes and a few street scenes
too.

The KX porters with the trolleys of passenger luggage is one of many
notable things. Reassuring to see that the front of KX station still
looked like a building site back then - but actually I don't think the
motley collection of buildings (best seen at 6:57) had anything to do
with construction - had this rather unkempt mess just sort of
developed by default rather than design over the years?

What's the significance if any of the shot of the house and buildings
on that narrow plot of land at 5:10 - and also where exactly is that,
a junction off Pentonville Rd (with Kings Cross Road perhaps)? I can't
quite work out the lie of the land there.

Good find! I'm only familiar with "modern" KX, didn't realise what a
mess it was before the current extension at the front.

All the shots of steam locos look very atmospheric but I'm not sure I
would have wanted to exit trains in a cloud of steam and soot every
morning! What must it have been like for the engine crew in the
tunnels with the two trains leaving the station together (9:00)?

That plot of land looks a bit like the triangle between Pentonville Rd
and Grays Inn Rd (looking west-east) but could be Kings Cross Road as
you say - odd to find that 1930s house stuck in the middle!

What's the long-term future of the Widened Line platforms at Moorgate
and Barbican. North of the tunnel north of Barbican, the track has
been lifted, and from Barbican southwards the overhead catenary has
been taken down.


Was there not talk at some point of incorporating the City Branch into
LOROL?

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On Jun 17, 4:47*pm, "Dr. Sunil" wrote:

What's the long-term future of the Widened Line platforms at Moorgate
and Barbican. North of the tunnel north of Barbican, the track has
been lifted, and from Barbican southwards the overhead catenary has
been taken down

There was a short article in Modern Railways recently that suggested
conversion of the alignment to use as sidings for LUL so that S Stock
can be stabled there.

--
Paul C
via Google

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On Jun 18, 7:38*am, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Jun 17, 4:47*pm, "Dr. Sunil" wrote:

What's the long-term future of the Widened Line platforms at Moorgate
and Barbican. North of the tunnel north of Barbican, the track has
been lifted, and from Barbican southwards the overhead catenary has
been taken down

There was a short article in Modern Railways recently that suggested
conversion of the alignment to use as sidings for LUL so that S Stock
can be stabled there.

Which is, I think, the 'obvious' suggestion that lots of people (inc.
moi!) have come up with in the past when this issue has been discussed.

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On Fri, 18 Jun 2010, Mizter T wrote:

On Jun 18, 7:38*am, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Jun 17, 4:47*pm, "Dr. Sunil" wrote:

What's the long-term future of the Widened Line platforms at Moorgate
and Barbican. North of the tunnel north of Barbican, the track has
been lifted, and from Barbican southwards the overhead catenary has
been taken down

There was a short article in Modern Railways recently that suggested
conversion of the alignment to use as sidings for LUL so that S Stock
can be stabled there.

Which is, I think, the 'obvious' suggestion that lots of people (inc.
moi!) have come up with in the past when this issue has been discussed.

Surely the *obvious* use is to reroute the Met and friends over one of the
liberated pairs, so you have two tracks in each direction, and then use
the paired tracks to run double-width gigantotrains as a shuttle between
Farringdon and Moorgate.

But after that, yes, using the track as sidings is pretty obvious.

tom

--
ONE IN EIGHT GO MAD

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On Fri, 18 Jun 2010, wrote:

On 17/06/2010 16:47, Dr. Sunil wrote:

What's the long-term future of the Widened Line platforms at Moorgate
and Barbican. North of the tunnel north of Barbican, the track has been
lifted, and from Barbican southwards the overhead catenary has been
taken down.

Was there not talk at some point of incorporating the City Branch into
LOROL?

How would that work? Some kind of mad spur from Moorgate to Shoreditch? Or
from Farringdon to Euston? Or both? Or do you mean LOROL but LO, in which
case what would it do?

Or do you mean the Northern City line, ie the Finsbury Park - Moorgate
tube? I could see that making a certain amount of sense as part of LO,
although i don't see how you'd reconcile that with its importance to outer
suburban services.

tom

--
ONE IN EIGHT GO MAD

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

IMHO what the Circle Line desperately needs is some kind of relief
location where trains can be regulated.

4 tracks for Circle use *only* where you can do bifurcating operation
and/or recess trains and/or overtake if necessary are all contribute
positively to service regulation. ((The point about overtaking is
taking one train out of the flow when trains are bunched, re-inserting
it when the bunch has passed.))

Edgware Road is out of the frame these days since the broken Circle,
there is almost nowhere else where anything can be done.

Someone pointed out on some forum recently - here ? District Dave ? I
forget - that Kings Cross and Victoria are very busy stations with
long dwell times and oppurtunities - albeit expensive ones - have been
lost/impossible in recent/planned rebuild to put in 4 platforms. The
advantage cited was both locations are away from all the junctions,
and diametrically opposite each other, offering 2 regulation
locations. Clearly neither would happen now.

But if you slightly displaced the suggested regulation locations
clockwise around the Circle, you could use *Barbican* and South Ken.
The latter has I think room for 4 tracks still within the existing
structure/cutting, although it would need some shifting around of
trackside kit.

Thus a more sensible use of the redundant ''widened lines'' going east
of Farringdon would be to diverge from the Met-City to 4 platforms
through Barbican and converge back to 2 through lines through
Moorgate. I suggest there is enough space to do this but would need a
certain amount of significant work east of Barbican to achieve.

Ideally for bifurcating working you need an island for each direction
with both platform faces going the same way - neither South Ken nor
Barbican would offer this, so any trains being recessed or tipping out
would cause passenger to have to use crossways, but I suggest overall
this is an advantage : it train X is in the existing platform train Y
is stuck in tunnel behind. With 2 platform tracks, Y might get in
allowing passengers to cross to X while Y recesses. Overall it keep
passengers moving even if one train does not.

The whole point of this suggestion is to address the fundamental weak
point of the Circle - it has zero resilience. If you have 4 track
locations it allows sort of elasticity for the operators.

Far too subtle a point for uk.railway ''but we've always done it his
way'' die hards of course.

--
Nick

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On Jun 18, 11:03*pm, D7666 wrote:
IMHO what the Circle Line desperately needs is some kind of relief
location where trains can be regulated.




But old films are perhaps more interesting.

I'm surprised no-one commented on Cambridge Oxford with Derby
lightweights yet.

--
Nick

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

"D7666" wrote

But if you slightly displaced the suggested regulation locations
clockwise around the Circle, you could use *Barbican* and South Ken.
The latter has I think room for 4 tracks still within the existing
structure/cutting, although it would need some shifting around of
trackside kit.

Thus a more sensible use of the redundant ''widened lines'' going east
of Farringdon would be to diverge from the Met-City to 4 platforms
through Barbican and converge back to 2 through lines through
Moorgate. I suggest there is enough space to do this but would need a
certain amount of significant work east of Barbican to achieve.

Ideally for bifurcating working you need an island for each direction
with both platform faces going the same way - neither South Ken nor
Barbican would offer this, so any trains being recessed or tipping out
would cause passenger to have to use crossways, but I suggest overall
this is an advantage : it train X is in the existing platform train Y
is stuck in tunnel behind. With 2 platform tracks, Y might get in
allowing passengers to cross to X while Y recesses. Overall it keep
passengers moving even if one train does not.

The whole point of this suggestion is to address the fundamental weak
point of the Circle - it has zero resilience. If you have 4 track
locations it allows sort of elasticity for the operators.

Far too subtle a point for uk.railway ''but we've always done it his
way'' die hards of course.

I can just about remember South Ken with 4 District/Circle platforms. What
would be possible, and probably not too difficult, would be to put in an
additional westbound (clockwise)track and platform at South Kensington, so
that District trains have their own track, separate from the Circle, from
here through Gloucester Road. Useful when Earls Court is blocked, perhaps
with trains waiting for a change of driver, as Circle trains could overtake
the queue. Exceptionally a District train could use the Circle track to
overtake a queue if this helped regulating the service.

If the westbound (anticlockwise} track through Barbican was diverted to the
former Up Moorgate Widened line trains would simply call at the other side
of the island platform. The existing westbound line could then be used as a
recess line, or as a turnback line in either direction. At worst passengers
on an eastbound train which was being turned back would be advised to change
at Farringdon if they were travelling beyond Barbican, or have to cross the
bridge at Barbican if they weren't given or didn't heed this advice. No
worse than trains turning back at Mansion House or Tower Hill.

Peter

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On Fri, 18 Jun 2010 15:03:37 -0700 (PDT), D7666
wrote:
IMHO what the Circle Line desperately needs is some kind of relief
location where trains can be regulated.

Aldgate?

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On Jun 18, 11:30*pm, "Peter Masson" wrote:

I can just about remember South Ken with 4 District/Circle platforms. What
would be possible, and probably not too difficult, would be to put in an
additional westbound (clockwise)track and platform at South Kensington, so
that District trains have their own track, separate from the Circle, from
here through Gloucester Road. Useful when Earls Court is blocked, perhaps
with trains waiting for a change of driver, as Circle trains could overtake
the queue. Exceptionally a District train could use the Circle track to
overtake a queue if this helped regulating the service.

If the westbound (anticlockwise} track through Barbican was diverted to the
former Up Moorgate Widened line trains would simply call at the other side
of the island platform. The existing westbound line could then be used as a
recess line, or as a turnback line in either direction. At worst passengers
on an eastbound train which was being turned back would be advised to change
at Farringdon if they were travelling beyond Barbican, or have to cross the
bridge at Barbican if they weren't given or didn't heed this advice. No
worse than trains turning back at Mansion House or Tower Hill.


Aha!

Someone understands what I'm on about :o)

Agreed with all you say. South Ken and Barbican offer as much relief
to the District and Met. using the circle tracks as to the Circle
Line, and Barbican + Moorgate + Aldgate or South Ken + Earls Court +
HS Ken would give them all some serious service recovery options when
things do go astray.

--
Nick

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

In article ,
(Peter Masson) wrote:

I can just about remember South Ken with 4 District/Circle
platforms. What would be possible, and probably not too difficult,
would be to put in an additional westbound (clockwise)track and
platform at South Kensington, so that District trains have their
own track, separate from the Circle, from here through Gloucester
Road. Useful when Earls Court is blocked, perhaps with trains
waiting for a change of driver, as Circle trains could overtake the
queue. Exceptionally a District train could use the Circle track to
overtake a queue if this helped regulating the service.

I remember the East-facing bay at South Ken. I never saw a train in it
other than on Sundays.

I think the problem there is that the escalator to the Piccadilly
platforms has blocked part of the old District formation. The old
Eastbound District platform is still available, though. That would allow
separation of District and Circle again.

If the westbound (anticlockwise} track through Barbican was
diverted to the former Up Moorgate Widened line trains would simply
call at the other side of the island platform. The existing
westbound line could then be used as a recess line, or as a
turnback line in either direction. At worst passengers on an
eastbound train which was being turned back would be advised to
change at Farringdon if they were travelling beyond Barbican, or
have to cross the bridge at Barbican if they weren't given or
didn't heed this advice. No worse than trains turning back at
Mansion House or Tower Hill.

Given the track layouts at Farringdon and Moorgate, how easy would it be
to use to old Widened Lines Barbican up platform as a loop?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

In message , Peter Masson
wrote:
I can just about remember South Ken with 4 District/Circle platforms.
What would be possible, and probably not too difficult, would be to put
in an additional westbound (clockwise)track and platform at South
Kensington, so that District trains have their own track, separate from
the Circle, from here through Gloucester Road. Useful when Earls Court
is blocked, perhaps with trains waiting for a change of driver, as
Circle trains could overtake the queue. Exceptionally a District train
could use the Circle track to overtake a queue if this helped
regulating the service.

This arrangement already exists, just starting immediately west of South
Kensington rather that immediately east of it. I'm not at all convinced
that the extra platform at SK would have benefit.

--
Clive D.W. Feather | Home:
Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org
Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is:

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

"Martin Rich" wrote

also wondered what sort of freight, apart from meat to and from
Smithfield, would have used the lines in the 1950s.

Freight through to the Southern. 51 southbound trips a day in 1951 (I am not
sure whether this includes trains to Smithfield). A bank engine was
maintained at Farringdon to assist trains up to Ludgate Hill.

Peter

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On 21 June, 12:18, wrote:
Not to sure of there locations but was it the Midland/LMS that had
owned a couple of coal yards in *South London or a bit further that
were only accessible along the tracks of southern companies? Would
they have been a source of traffic for the Widened Lines route?

Also when did pre-Thameslink-revival passenger services stop running
over the Farringdon to/from Southern Region section, what services
were latterly provided and by which BR Region(s) - or if pre-BR which
Railway Company(ies) provided the services?

--
gordon

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

In article
,
() wrote:

On 21 June, 12:18, wrote:
Not to sure of there locations but was it the Midland/LMS that had
owned a couple of coal yards in *South London or a bit further that
were only accessible along the tracks of southern companies? Would
they have been a source of traffic for the Widened Lines route?

Also when did pre-Thameslink-revival passenger services stop running
over the Farringdon to/from Southern Region section, what services
were latterly provided and by which BR Region(s) - or if pre-BR which
Railway Company(ies) provided the services?

Were there any passenger services via the Snow Hill tunnel after the First
World war?
I didn't think there were any.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On Jun 21, 12:18*pm, wrote:

Not to sure of there locations but was it the Midland/LMS that had
owned a couple of coal yards in *South London or a bit further that
were only accessible along the tracks of southern companies?

There were, but by far the *bulk* of traffic carried was simply cross
London inter marshalling yard traffic, not to loading/unloading yards
handling coal or other commodities.


--
Nick

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

wrote

Also when did pre-Thameslink-revival passenger services stop running
over the Farringdon to/from Southern Region section, what services
were latterly provided and by which BR Region(s) - or if pre-BR which
Railway Company(ies) provided the services?

1908. Services had been provided by the Midland, Great Northern, London
Chatham & Dover and South Eastern (the last two came together in the South
Eastern & Chatham Railway Management Committee in 1899 - before then South
Eastern trains were not allowed to call at St Paul's (Blackfriars), Ludgate
Hill or Snow Hill). London and South Western Railway trains ran as far as
Ludgate Hill in passenger service, and continued to Snow Hill sidings to
reverse. SE&CR trains to Moorgate Street via the Snow Hill to Aldersgate
curve continued until April 1916, and trains from the south ran as far as
Snow Hill (by then known as Holborn Viaduct Low Level) until June 1916.

Peter

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On 21/06/2010 07:53, Martin Rich wrote:

snip
In the video, I'm intrigued that the Aldersgate (now Barbican) is
referred to as
'Aldersgate and Barbican' - I thought the name 'Barbican' only came into
use
later,

According to David Leboff's book the name became Aldersgate & Barbican
in 1923 and just Barbican in 1968. (The original 1865 name was
Aldersgate Street which became Aldersgate in 1910.)

I notice that the Pentonville Road station was Kings Cross St Pancras in
the video - later it became just Kings Cross (to avoid confusion with
the main LU station?)

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

"Peter Lawrence" wrote

I notice that the Pentonville Road station was Kings Cross St Pancras in
the video - later it became just Kings Cross (to avoid confusion with the
main LU station?)

Until the 1930s the Met/Circle platforms were alongside the ones used by
Midland and Great Northern trains to Moorgate via the Widened Lines and the
whole station was operated by the Met/LPTB. When the Circle/Met decamped to
their new platforms, the Widened Lines station was still operated by LPTB/LT
and named Kings Cross St Pancras as part of the Underground station. In 1976
the Great Northern trains decamped as part of GN electrics, and started
going to Moorgate via the Northern City line. This left just a handful of
trains to/from the Midland, and the station was renamed Kings Cross LT (so
passengers didn't start looking for these trains at St Pancras). Later the
line was closed for the BedPan electrification, and when it reopened it was
named Kings Cross Midland City (and operated by the LM Region, then Network
SouthEast. It was renamed Kings Cross Thameslink when Thameslink opened.

Peter

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:03:16 +0100, Peter Masson
wrote:
SE&CR trains to Moorgate Street via the Snow Hill to Aldersgate curve
continued until April 1916,

What happened to that curve? I guess it was built on, but sometimes these
things end up as car parks.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at the
population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On Jun 24, 8:58*am, "Colin McKenzie" wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:03:16 +0100, Peter Masson
wrote:
SE&CR trains to Moorgate Street via the Snow Hill to Aldersgate curve *
continued until April 1916,

What happened to that curve? I guess it was built on, but sometimes these *
things end up as car parks.

Much of the curve was/is subterranean - I understand that the
underground NCP car park on Snow Hill occupies some of the alignment.
Been intrigued by this and have been intending to investigate for a
while, but I'm not too sure how welcome non parking customers
traipsing around on foot might be (not that such considerations have
put a halt to my explorations before!). Also the car park is closed at
weekends.

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

In message
,
Mizter T writes

Much of the curve was/is subterranean - I understand that the
underground NCP car park on Snow Hill occupies some of the alignment.

Apart from that very short section, all of the rest (including the
eastern junction) ran through the basement of Smithfield Market, so I
doubt that it is normally accessible to the public.
--
Paul Terry

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On Jun 24, 2:58*am, Mizter T wrote:
On Jun 24, 8:58*am, "Colin McKenzie" wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:03:16 +0100, Peter Masson
wrote:
SE&CR trains to Moorgate Street via the Snow Hill to Aldersgate curve *
continued until April 1916,

What happened to that curve? I guess it was built on, but sometimes these *
things end up as car parks.

Much of the curve was/is subterranean - I understand that the
underground NCP car park on Snow Hill occupies some of the alignment.
Been intrigued by this and have been intending to investigate for a
while, but I'm not too sure how welcome non parking customers
traipsing around on foot might be (not that such considerations have
put a halt to my explorations before!). Also the car park is closed at
weekends.

It is too late now, I know, but it would have been great if the trains
that will terminate at Blackfriars could have been routed through to
Moorgate. I guess a four track Thameslink would have been a bit
much! Persuading the, then, DoT to go for re-opening Snow Hill tunnel
at all was a big achievement.

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

On Jun 24, 6:20*pm, E27002 wrote:

On Jun 24, 2:58*am, Mizter T wrote:

On Jun 24, 8:58*am, "Colin McKenzie" wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:03:16 +0100, Peter Masson
wrote:
SE&CR trains to Moorgate Street via the Snow Hill to Aldersgate
curve continued until April 1916,

What happened to that curve? I guess it was built on, but sometimes
these things end up as car parks.

Much of the curve was/is subterranean - I understand that the
underground NCP car park on Snow Hill occupies some of the alignment.
Been intrigued by this and have been intending to investigate for a
while, but I'm not too sure how welcome non parking customers
traipsing around on foot might be (not that such considerations have
put a halt to my explorations before!). Also the car park is closed at
weekends.

It is too late now, I know, but it would have been great if the trains
that will terminate at Blackfriars could have been routed through to
Moorgate. *I guess a four track Thameslink would have been a bit
much! *Persuading the, then, DoT to go for re-opening Snow Hill tunnel
at all was a big achievement.

It was back in BR days, so I don't think it would have needed quite
the same ministerial stamp of approval as would be required today, if
indeed it needed ministerial approval at all (at least for a more
modest project such as re-opening the Snow Hill tunnel). I think the
people to convince back then were more the BR Board.

Moorgate & Met.Widended Lines you tube
 

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...


It was back in BR days, so I don't think it would have needed quite
the same ministerial stamp of approval as would be required today, if
indeed it needed ministerial approval at all (at least for a more
modest project such as re-opening the Snow Hill tunnel). I think the
people to convince back then were more the BR Board.

Found on Google:

http://www.semgonline.com/RlyMag/ChathamConMoorgate.pdf

Only had a quick glance, but ought to help with the history. Seems the
'Smithfield Curve' closure was in 1927, and most evidence was probably
obliterated in the 1960s rebuild of the Poultry Market?

Paul S