I only visit London occasionally, but seems to me from the odd glimpse of
the Underground I get every couple of months that it's going downhill fast.
Am I just seeing the bad bits, or is this generally true? Took a Circle
train a couple of weeks ago and it was a complete pig-sty - covered in
graffiti, knee-deep in fast food wrappers (not to mention the actual fast
food) etc., and this was at 12.30pm.

I'm deeply cynical about the whole privatisation thing, so this obviously
colours my views. It no doubt looks like a wonderful idea on paper to the
Treasury economists with their theoretical models of how the world works.
Doesn't work in practice because people are greedy, inefficient and
generally behave in ways that no model can, er, model. (Just like that
other brilliant piece of economist's thinking: Marxism). I'd be fascinated
to know, for example, how many people are now involved in running the tube,
including all the private sector companies, lawyers, accountants, public
relations types etc.. I'd be prepared to bet that the number of those on 6
figure 'packages' (including directors, non-execs (pro-rated), etc etc.) has
gone through the roof compared with the previous arrangements.

Summary: it wasn't broke before, it was lunacy to try to 'fix' it like this.
Quote: for every economist, there's an equal and opposite economist.

Phew, glad I got that off my chest.

Pip pip


Andrew

On Wed, 3 Dec 2003 15:30:48 -0000, "nzuri" wrote:

I only visit London occasionally, but seems to me from the odd glimpse of
the Underground I get every couple of months that it's going downhill fast.
Am I just seeing the bad bits, or is this generally true? Took a Circle
train a couple of weeks ago and it was a complete pig-sty - covered in
graffiti, knee-deep in fast food wrappers (not to mention the actual fast
food) etc., and this was at 12.30pm.

I'm not sure about the privatisation thing myself, but it's the pax
who create the rubbish - not LU. If they weren't so f##king lazy
they'd hang on to it until they found a bin - irrespective of how long
that took :-(



--

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Replies to this address will bounce!
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I'm not sure about the privatisation thing myself, but it's the pax
who create the rubbish - not LU. If they weren't so f##king lazy
they'd hang on to it until they found a bin - irrespective of how long
that took :-(

Once boarded a "First train" early in the morn and went just two stops and
noticed where the only other person had sat was a fresh Banana skin after he
alighted - left for the cleaners and other passengers. and that was about
5.30AM.
Most people see the tube trains as a dumping ground as well as a moving
restaurant (19 hrs a day)

If only we did like Singapore for ex - NO litter Eating or Drinking - apart
from YOBS doing grafitti - the Burgerless carriage may encourage people to
look after it more?

only meee wrote:
I'm not sure about the privatisation thing myself, but it's
the pax
who create the rubbish - not LU. If they weren't so f##king
lazy
they'd hang on to it until they found a bin - irrespective
of how long
that took :-(

Once boarded a "First train" early in the morn and went
just two stops and noticed where the only other person had
sat was a fresh Banana skin after he alighted - left for
the cleaners and other passengers. and that was about
5.30AM.
Most people see the tube trains as a dumping ground as
well as a moving restaurant (19 hrs a day)

If only we did like Singapore for ex - NO litter Eating or
Drinking - apart from YOBS doing grafitti - the Burgerless
carriage may encourage people to look after it more?

Going back some years there were two letters in the Standard on this subject
either on the same day or within a few days. The first was from someone who
passed through Victoria LU station having arrived on the first train and
said "It shone like a new pin". They returned late in the evening from
somehwere out in the country and the same station looked like a pigsty. They
came to the relaisation that "It is the passengers who make the Underground
dirty".

The second letter was from a Dover - Calais ferry passenger. They used the
toilets upon boarding and said they were immaculate. The person then used
the same toilets just before disembarking and found them in a disgusting
state. The comment was, "Come on BR you can do better". (The ferry operator
was then Sealink of which BR was a part. I did say it was some years ago.)

In article , only meee wrote:

Once boarded a "First train" early in the morn and went just two stops and
noticed where the only other person had sat was a fresh Banana skin after he
alighted - left for the cleaners and other passengers. and that was about
5.30AM.
Most people see the tube trains as a dumping ground as well as a moving
restaurant (19 hrs a day)

Is there anything stopping LU from putting a few bins in the carriages?
At least then people would have somewhere other than the floor/seats to
put their rubbish...

Niklas
--
"The 2 minute silence will begin when the fire alarm is activated in all
buildings." -- Internal e-mail at my place of employment.

Niklas Karlsson wrote:
In article , only meee wrote:

Once boarded a "First train" early in the morn and went just two
stops and noticed where the only other person had sat was a fresh
Banana skin after he alighted - left for the cleaners and other
passengers. and that was about
5.30AM.
Most people see the tube trains as a dumping ground as well as a
moving restaurant (19 hrs a day)

Is there anything stopping LU from putting a few bins in the
carriages? At least then people would have somewhere other than
the floor/seats to put their rubbish...

But you'd need a bin by every set of doors to be effective. I'd rather
have the standing room.
--
Richard J.
(to e-mail me, swap uk and yon in address)

(Niklas Karlsson) wrote the following in:


In article , only meee
wrote:

Once boarded a "First train" early in the morn and went just two
stops and noticed where the only other person had sat was a fresh
Banana skin after he alighted - left for the cleaners and other
passengers. and that was about 5.30AM.
Most people see the tube trains as a dumping ground as well as a
moving restaurant (19 hrs a day)

Is there anything stopping LU from putting a few bins in the
carriages?

Yes. Terrorism.

--
message by Robin May, but you can call me Mr Smith.
Enjoy the Routemaster while you still can.

Another high quality lesson from Robin May:
Your and you're are different words!

"Robin May" wrote in message
. 1.4...
(Niklas Karlsson) wrote the following in:


Is there anything stopping LU from putting a few bins in the
carriages?

Yes. Terrorism.

Presumably the 465s and 466s that South Eastern run are better targets,
then. I see that they have bins just by the doors.
--
Terry Harper, Web Co-ordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org
E-mail:
URL: http://www.terry.harper.btinternet.co.uk/

"Robin May" wrote in message
. 1.4...
(Niklas Karlsson) wrote the following in:


In article , only meee
wrote:

Once boarded a "First train" early in the morn and went just two
stops and noticed where the only other person had sat was a fresh
Banana skin after he alighted - left for the cleaners and other
passengers. and that was about 5.30AM.
Most people see the tube trains as a dumping ground as well as a
moving restaurant (19 hrs a day)

Is there anything stopping LU from putting a few bins in the
carriages?

Yes. Terrorism.

What about clear bins?

Robin May wrote in message .1.4...
(Niklas Karlsson) wrote the following in:


In article , only meee
wrote:

Once boarded a "First train" early in the morn and went just two
stops and noticed where the only other person had sat was a fresh
Banana skin after he alighted - left for the cleaners and other
passengers. and that was about 5.30AM.
Most people see the tube trains as a dumping ground as well as a
moving restaurant (19 hrs a day)

Is there anything stopping LU from putting a few bins in the
carriages?

Yes. Terrorism.


As we have seen recently terrorists are more likely to blow themselves up
with a bomb in their coats than bother to hide one in a bin. This terrorism
excuse might have been valid back in the 70s and 80s when the IRA were doing
their stuff in london but it seems to me than nowadays its just used as an
excuse to save money not having bins and paying people to empty them. You can
hardly blame people for dropping stuff if they can't even find a bin in a
station these days never mind on a train.

B2003