Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

Thought I would be the first to post this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11064903


My only comment is regarding the statement by Caroline Pidgeon that
""If staff numbers are severely reduced it will become far more
difficult for staff to help disabled and vulnerable customers and
other people who need assistance, including visitors."

Firstly, staff numbers are not being reduced, because LU have already
guaranteed that there will be no compulsory redundancies. Secondly, if
staff are not working in the ticket office, they will be available in
the station to "..help disabled and vulnerable customers,,,,"

Another case of a politician jumping on a bandwagon, which may become
a useful form of transport if the strikes go ahead.

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

In article ,
Paul wrote:
Firstly, staff numbers are not being reduced, because LU have already
guaranteed that there will be no compulsory redundancies. Secondly, if
staff are not working in the ticket office, they will be available in
the station to "..help disabled and vulnerable customers,,,,"

Staff not being reduced does not follow from no compulsory redundencies.
Firstly, there is the possibility of voluntry redundencies; secondly,
there could be a plan for a wind down in the numbers through not
recruiting as people resign / move on / retire.

Also, if the plan is to move people from behind the ticket office
counter at country stations, and move them to roles on the "station
floor" in central london stations, then there may be fewer people
available to help disabled and vulnerable customers at the contry
end.

I doubt we know enough about LuLs plans to realistically judge the
real impact of their proposals. I would hope that the union and
politicians involved have that knowledge - partially because they
can put the time into finding out, and partially because they have
the ear of LuL - but I suspect I'm being a triffle optimistic.

In short: I don't believe the spin, as reported, of anyone.

--
Mike Bristow

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 05:29:28 -0700 (PDT), Paul wrote:
Firstly, staff numbers are not being reduced, because LU have already
guaranteed that there will be no compulsory redundancies.

That doesn't mean there wont be reductions in the number of staff. There
might be voluntary redundancies and I assume there is a natural turnover
of staff anyway which could be not replaced through recruitment.

Secondly, if
staff are not working in the ticket office, they will be available in
the station to "..help disabled and vulnerable customers,,,,"

In theory but it isn't my experience. I'm told that my local station,
Woodside Park, is always staffed even when the ticket office is shut
but on occasion I've been unable to find a member of staff to unlock the
ticket barrier gate and so had to lift a buggy over the barriers. I can
do that but someone in a wheelchair might have more difficulty.

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

David Walters wrote on 24 August 2010 13:56:38 ...
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 05:29:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Firstly, staff numbers are not being reduced, because LU have already
guaranteed that there will be no compulsory redundancies.

That doesn't mean there wont be reductions in the number of staff. There
might be voluntary redundancies and I assume there is a natural turnover
of staff anyway which could be not replaced through recruitment.

Secondly, if
staff are not working in the ticket office, they will be available in
the station to "..help disabled and vulnerable customers,,,,"

In theory but it isn't my experience. I'm told that my local station,
Woodside Park, is always staffed even when the ticket office is shut
but on occasion I've been unable to find a member of staff to unlock the
ticket barrier gate and so had to lift a buggy over the barriers. I can
do that but someone in a wheelchair might have more difficulty.

If staff are not on duty in the ticket hall, the manual gate should be
left unlocked. Did you check that it wouldn't open with a firm push or
pull? If so, that should be reported as a potentially serious lack of
an emergency exit route.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

On 24 Aug, 13:52, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article ,
* * * * Paul wrote:

Firstly, staff numbers are not being reduced, because LU have already
guaranteed that there will be no compulsory redundancies. Secondly, if
staff are not working in the ticket office, they will be available in
the station to "..help disabled and vulnerable customers,,,,"

Staff not being reduced does not follow from no compulsory redundencies.
Firstly, there is the possibility of voluntry redundencies; secondly,
there could be a plan for a wind down in the numbers through not
recruiting as people resign / move on / retire.

Also, if the plan is to move people from behind the ticket office
counter at country stations, and move them to roles on the "station
floor" in central london stations, then there may be fewer people
available to help disabled and vulnerable customers at the contry
end.

I doubt we know enough about LuLs plans to realistically judge the
real impact of their proposals. *I would hope that the union and
politicians involved have that knowledge - partially because they
can put the time into finding out, and partially because they have
the ear of LuL - but I suspect I'm being a triffle optimistic.

In short: *I don't believe the spin, as reported, of anyone.

--
Mike Bristow * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Doesn't each station have a minimum staffing requirement, without
which it is unable to open? I am not aware that this is going to
change.

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:27:51 +0100, Richard
J. wrote:
David Walters wrote on 24 August 2010 13:56:38 ...
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 05:29:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Secondly, if
staff are not working in the ticket office, they will be available in
the station to "..help disabled and vulnerable customers,,,,"

In theory but it isn't my experience. I'm told that my local station,
Woodside Park, is always staffed even when the ticket office is shut
but on occasion I've been unable to find a member of staff to unlock the
ticket barrier gate and so had to lift a buggy over the barriers. I can
do that but someone in a wheelchair might have more difficulty.

If staff are not on duty in the ticket hall, the manual gate should be
left unlocked. Did you check that it wouldn't open with a firm push or
pull?

Yup, it was firmly locked.

If so, that should be reported as a potentially serious lack of
an emergency exit route.

To who?

I did email customer services with a bit of a rant and asking if I should
push the emergency all gate open button thingy. I can't find their reply
at the moment but they claimed that just because I couldn't see or find
any staff that doesn't mean there weren't any watching the barrier line
and they would be monitoring it via CCTV. I assume they were laughing
while drinking their tea as I struggled to lift a buggy over the barriers.

I don't really mean the last bit but it can be frustrating when there
are no staff about.

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 07:00:44 -0700 (PDT), Paul wrote:
Doesn't each station have a minimum staffing requirement, without
which it is unable to open? I am not aware that this is going to
change.

Isn't that for stations which are below ground?

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

David Walters wrote on 24 August 2010 15:02:41 ...
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:27:51 +0100, Richard
wrote:
David wrote on 24 August 2010 13:56:38 ...
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 05:29:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Secondly, if
staff are not working in the ticket office, they will be available in
the station to "..help disabled and vulnerable customers,,,,"

In theory but it isn't my experience. I'm told that my local station,
Woodside Park, is always staffed even when the ticket office is shut
but on occasion I've been unable to find a member of staff to unlock the
ticket barrier gate and so had to lift a buggy over the barriers. I can
do that but someone in a wheelchair might have more difficulty.

If staff are not on duty in the ticket hall, the manual gate should be
left unlocked. Did you check that it wouldn't open with a firm push or
pull?

Yup, it was firmly locked.

If so, that should be reported as a potentially serious lack of
an emergency exit route.

To who?

I did email customer services with a bit of a rant and asking if I should
push the emergency all gate open button thingy. I can't find their reply
at the moment but they claimed that just because I couldn't see or find
any staff that doesn't mean there weren't any watching the barrier line
and they would be monitoring it via CCTV.

So why didn't this person see your problem and come out and help? In
practice there would not be anyone *dedicated* to watching the gate line
on CCTV. There might be someone with a whole bank of screens to monitor,
and he'll probably pay more attention to those showing the platform when
there's a train there.

I believe there used to be a rule that gates were all to be closed if
the ticket office was manned (because it has remote gate release
buttons), but nowadays the staff on duty are likely to be in a control
room or supervisor's office somewhere else. Are there any LU staff here
who can say what the current rule is about unlocking the manual gate
when the gate line and ticket office are not staffed?
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:27:25 +0100, Richard
J. wrote:
David Walters wrote on 24 August 2010 15:02:41 ...
I did email customer services with a bit of a rant and asking if I should
push the emergency all gate open button thingy. I can't find their reply
at the moment but they claimed that just because I couldn't see or find
any staff that doesn't mean there weren't any watching the barrier line
and they would be monitoring it via CCTV.

So why didn't this person see your problem and come out and help? In
practice there would not be anyone *dedicated* to watching the gate line
on CCTV. There might be someone with a whole bank of screens to monitor,
and he'll probably pay more attention to those showing the platform when
there's a train there.

I don't know where the staff were because I didn't see them but
this was at Woodside Park where the gates are basically on the
platform (you can just about see them on the left of the photo at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wo..._platforms.jpg ) so I
know there wasn't a train there.

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

On 24 Aug, 16:42, David Walters wrote:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:27:25 +0100, Richard

J. wrote:
David Walters wrote on 24 August 2010 15:02:41 ....
I did email customer services with a bit of a rant and asking if I should
push the emergency all gate open button thingy. I can't find their reply
at the moment but they claimed that just because I couldn't see or find
any staff that doesn't mean there weren't any watching the barrier line
and they would be monitoring it via CCTV.

So why didn't this person see your problem and come out and help? *In
practice there would not be anyone *dedicated* to watching the gate line
on CCTV. There might be someone with a whole bank of screens to monitor,
and he'll probably pay more attention to those showing the platform when
there's a train there.

I don't know where the staff were because I didn't see them but
this was at Woodside Park where the gates are basically on the
platform (you can just about see them on the left of the photo athttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Woodside_Park_platforms.jpg) so I
know there wasn't a train there.

Much clearer image he
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...southbound.JPG

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

David Walters wrote on 24 August 2010 16:42:19 ...
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 16:27:25 +0100, Richard
wrote:
David wrote on 24 August 2010 15:02:41 ...
I did email customer services with a bit of a rant and asking if I should
push the emergency all gate open button thingy. I can't find their reply
at the moment but they claimed that just because I couldn't see or find
any staff that doesn't mean there weren't any watching the barrier line
and they would be monitoring it via CCTV.

So why didn't this person see your problem and come out and help? In
practice there would not be anyone *dedicated* to watching the gate line
on CCTV. There might be someone with a whole bank of screens to monitor,
and he'll probably pay more attention to those showing the platform when
there's a train there.

I don't know where the staff were because I didn't see them but
this was at Woodside Park where the gates are basically on the
platform (you can just about see them on the left of the photo at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wo..._platforms.jpg ) so I
know there wasn't a train there.

Must have been making the tea, then. ;-)

My point is that LU's reply doesn't credibly address your concern. What
did they expect you to do in the absence of any visible response? Are
passengers expected to notice "the emergency all gate open button
thingy", which personally I wasn't aware of? I think you should pursue
this further with LU customer services until you get a proper answer.
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 05:29:28 -0700 (PDT), Paul wrote:
Thought I would be the first to post this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11064903

Firstly, staff numbers are not being reduced

Today TfL published this:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/16542.aspx

which includes

"The proposed changes would mean a reduction in the total number of posts
across LU"

and

"the majority of the roughly 800 posts that are identified for reduction
are ticket office staff; this also includes a saving of around 150 posts
from reductions in management and administrative staff."

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 21:15:26 +0100, Richard
J. wrote:
My point is that LU's reply doesn't credibly address your concern. What
did they expect you to do in the absence of any visible response? Are
passengers expected to notice "the emergency all gate open button
thingy", which personally I wasn't aware of?

Perhaps I should have waited longer?

I think you should pursue
this further with LU customer services until you get a proper answer.

I probably will do when/if it next happens. The last few times I've been
there with a buggy there has been someone in the ticket office. Of course
getting their attention is easier when they aren't selling tickets as
there isn't a queue.

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

The dates were announced today, and they're roughly monthly.

From the BBC site:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11083153

"Maintenance and engineering staff will walk out for 24 hours at 1700
on 6 September, 3 October, 2 November and 28 November.

Other workers, including Tube drivers, signallers and station staff,
will strike for 24 hours from 2100 on the same dates."

I'm not sure if maintenance staff walking out will have any immediate
effect on services, but last time the drivers went on strike, I recall
services began to wind down a couple of hours beforehand. Presumably
services won't get back to normal until start of traffic on the third
day, so it's rather more than a 24 hour stoppage.

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:51:56 +0100, David Walters
wrote:

"the majority of the roughly 800 posts that are identified for reduction
are ticket office staff; this also includes a saving of around 150 posts
from reductions in management and administrative staff."

I'm not totally clear what the need for ticket offices on a metro
system is. Few systems around the world have the kind of ticket
office coverage LUL does - in Hamburg, for instance, they only open a
few times a month for season ticket sales.

Oyster seems to be increasing their use, but mostly for buying cards
and returning deposits - machines can do both of these as in
Singapore.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 20:42:12 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:
I'm not totally clear what the need for ticket offices on a metro
system is.

I use them to add customer charter credit vouchers to my Oyster balance
and buy through tickets to places like Bracknell. Both could be done at
a suitable ticket machine but not the current ones.

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:29:56 +0100, David Walters
wrote:

I use them to add customer charter credit vouchers to my Oyster balance
and buy through tickets to places like Bracknell. Both could be done at
a suitable ticket machine but not the current ones.

Through tickets onto the mainline could be done a different way by
allowing a LUL ticket to be "traded in" against a through ticket at a
railway ticket office instead. I expect they are very much a minority
product, though, judging by how few people seem to put a magnetic
anything through barriers these days on LUL.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

In article ,
David Walters wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 20:42:12 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:
I'm not totally clear what the need for ticket offices on a metro
system is.

I use them to add customer charter credit vouchers to my Oyster balance
and buy through tickets to places like Bracknell. Both could be done at
a suitable ticket machine but not the current ones.

The right way to handle customer charter credit is to have a bit
on the form which says "if you want the credit applied to your
oyster card, tick here (note: this only applies if your oyster card
is registered to you)".

Might need some tweaking (ie, nominate a station; enter your oyster
card number), but frankly it would be much easier to have a top-up
when I passed through my home station than collect little bits of
paper and have to queue to get them added to my card.

Cheers,

--
Mike Bristow

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

On Thu, 26 Aug 2010 13:25:41 +0100, Mike Bristow wrote:
In article ,
David Walters wrote:
On Wed, 25 Aug 2010 20:42:12 +0100, Neil Williams
wrote:
I'm not totally clear what the need for ticket offices on a metro
system is.

I use them to add customer charter credit vouchers to my Oyster balance
and buy through tickets to places like Bracknell. Both could be done at
a suitable ticket machine but not the current ones.

The right way to handle customer charter credit is to have a bit
on the form which says "if you want the credit applied to your
oyster card, tick here (note: this only applies if your oyster card
is registered to you)".

Might need some tweaking (ie, nominate a station; enter your oyster
card number), but frankly it would be much easier to have a top-up
when I passed through my home station than collect little bits of
paper and have to queue to get them added to my card.

You already have to enter your Oyster card number so that is covered
but nominating a station could be tricky for an irregular traveller as
I think the gates only remember that kind of thing for a week and you
don't know how long it will take to process the refund.

A ticket machine with a suitable network connection when presented with an
Oyster card could offer the option to query a central database for any
refunds, auto-top-up changes etc. At the gate such a look up would slow
down lots of people but it could probably take 30 seconds without being
a problem at a ticket machine. I expect there is a big wish list of this
kind of thing somewhere in TfL towers.

Weekly Tube Strikes Threatened
 

In article ,
David Walters wrote:
You already have to enter your Oyster card number so that is covered
but nominating a station could be tricky for an irregular traveller as
I think the gates only remember that kind of thing for a week and you
don't know how long it will take to process the refund.

Sure; but if you make it optional, then those who use the tube at
least weekly, and start or end their trips at a single station -
and I expect that describes most Tube users - then it could be a
win. Probably cheaper for TfL, too.

A ticket machine with a suitable network connection when presented with an
Oyster card could offer the option to query a central database for any
refunds, auto-top-up changes etc. At the gate such a look up would slow
down lots of people but it could probably take 30 seconds without being
a problem at a ticket machine.

This is also true.

I expect there is a big wish list of this
kind of thing somewhere in TfL towers.

Ach, it's just a small matter of programming....

--
Mike Bristow