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On Tue, 7 Sep 2010 10:46:53 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:

You've missed the crucial wording "start a journey within the zones
covered by your Travelcard and want to travel outside those zones on
National Rail" - at Richmond, your colleague was *not* starting a
journey within the zones covered by his Travelcard, hence there was no
requirement for him to set an OEP.

Thanks (all who responded. I think I understand, though probably will
never need to know as I'm unlikely to ever get a Travelcard!).

I understand the *literal* meaning of the statement, but given the
obfuscation occasionally employed in rail speak wanted to clarify
whether 'start a journey' really meant one from within a zone to
outside or could also cover the return part - i.e. not treat each as a
single journey (though that does go against the principle of Oyster
PAYG not doing return fares and relying instead on the daily cap).

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On 08/09/10 00:27, Ivor The Engine wrote:

Thanks (all who responded. I think I understand, though probably will
never need to know as I'm unlikely to ever get a Travelcard!).

If you never load a Travelcard onto your Oyster card you can indeed
ignore the whole issue.

Indeed, I had ignored the whole issue for exactly that reason; but now
that I'm intending to move to London I'm expecting it's highly likely I
*will* be loading a Travelcard onto my Oyster...

-roy

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On Tue, Sep 07, 2010 at 03:46:30PM +0100, wrote:

Seeing as its either (as I recall) a round green light or a
round red light, is there also a colour-blindness defence?
And do the readers not sometimes beep (but maybe twice?) also
on a failed read? Hmm. Since I don't seem to remember very
clearly, perhaps I better hope there's a "hopelessly confused"
defence as well.

Sometimes they bleep once, sometimes twice, and the pitch is different.
I can't remember which way round it is though. And in any case, the
machine is always on my deaf side, so I've got a nice excuse there if I
ever need one :-)

--
David Cantrell | Reality Engineer, Ministry of Information

We found no search results for "crotchet". Did you mean "crotch"?

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On Sep 8, 1:22*pm, David Cantrell wrote:

On Tue, Sep 07, 2010 at 03:46:30PM +0100,
wrote:
Seeing as its either (as I recall) a round green light or a
round red light, is there also a colour-blindness defence?
And do the readers not sometimes beep (but maybe twice?) also
on a failed read? *Hmm. Since I don't seem to remember very
clearly, perhaps I better hope there's a "hopelessly confused"
defence as well.

Sometimes they bleep once, sometimes twice, and the pitch is different.
I can't remember which way round it is though. *And in any case, the
machine is always on my deaf side, so I've got a nice excuse there if I
ever need one :-)

One bleep - success.

Two bleeps - fail.

Multiple rapid bleeps - a 'Zip' Oyster card for young people has been
presented.

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On 7 Sep, 15:46, wrote:

Seeing as its either (as I recall) a round green light or a
round red light, is there also a colour-blindness defence?
And do the readers not sometimes beep (but maybe twice?) also
on a failed read? *Hmm. Since I don't seem to remember very
clearly, perhaps I better hope there's a "hopelessly confused"
defence as well.

Don't know about buses, but at Tube barriers it seems common to get a
successful read followed immediately by a failed "passback" read.
Thus people ignore the second one so long as the barrier doesn't
close.

Neil

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In article , (Roy
Badami) wrote:

On 07/09/10 14:36, Roy Badami wrote:

My concern is that it wouldn't fall apart. You'd be on a train without
a valid ticket, and you wouldn't really have much of a leg to stand
on. The offence under the byelaws is an absolute offence, so intent
doesn't matter.

Actually, I take that back slightly. The two relevent
circumstances that trigger an offence under the Railway Byelaws are

17(1) No person shall enter a compulsory ticket area on the railway
unless he has with him a valid ticket.

18(1) In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no
person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the
railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to
travel.

So it would seem that you wouldn't trigger the above offences if
you were within your zones when you entered a NR compulsory ticket
area; nor if you were within your zones when you boarded a NR
train, at least providing the next stop was also within your zones.

You might need to be careful if you need to change trains, though,
since if you don't remain within a compulsory ticket area then
boarding the second train may trigger an offence under 18(1).

If they can't use the Byelaws then of course we're home and dry,
because to prosecute under the Railways Acts they'd have to prove
an intent to evade the fare.

18(1) is not consistent with the sale of tickets on train, though!

--
Colin Rosenstiel

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In article
,
(Mizter T) wrote:

Your colleague was in full compliance with the rules. (The difference
in fares reflect the fact that a z3&4 journey on NR is charged at a
different rate to a z3&4 journey on TfL services, i.e. LU/LO/DLR.)

If he had a suitable railcard he would, however, have paid less on that
route. That's because a z3&4 journey on NR is eligible for railcard
discounts where travel on LU and LO isn't. I pay half this year for
Vauxhall-Putney singles what I paid last year without PAYG.

--
Colin Rosenstiel