District distress
 

For the first time in ages I'm using the Underground, specifically the
District between Whitechapel and Temple, changing to and from the ELL.
The contrast between the two is extreme - I'm shocked at how decrepit
the trains, track and some stations are on the District, and how awfully
slow it is. I guess it's going to be like that for a long time or until
bits drop off (oh, they are about to...).

E.

District distress
 

On 08/10/2010 18:23, eastender wrote:
For the first time in ages I'm using the Underground, specifically the
District between Whitechapel and Temple, changing to and from the ELL.
The contrast between the two is extreme - I'm shocked at how decrepit
the trains, track and some stations are on the District, and how awfully
slow it is. I guess it's going to be like that for a long time or until
bits drop off (oh, they are about to...).

E.

Coming in from the west, I saw a sign at one of the stations saying that
there have been less District trains available, due to some sort of
safety component issue. This specifically concerns D-stock, it would seem.

Any comments?

District distress
 

On 08/10/2010 23:13, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 08 Oct 2010 18:23:34 +0100, wrote:

For the first time in ages I'm using the Underground, specifically the
District between Whitechapel and Temple, changing to and from the ELL.
The contrast between the two is extreme - I'm shocked at how decrepit
the trains, track and some stations are on the District, and how awfully
slow it is. I guess it's going to be like that for a long time or until
bits drop off (oh, they are about to...).

Well you are swapping from a nearly new railway to one that awaits a
major modernisation. Even so I would not call the D Stock decrepit - OK
so they aren't air conditioned like 378s but they're roomy enough, have
been refurbished and I think they ride reasonably well.

I agree. I have never heard a bad word about them, and I have never
heard a driver complain about them either. Indeed, they tell me that
they are quite good trains.

Compared to C Stock they are a delight to use!

I don't ever recall hearing anything bad about C-Stocks, to be fair.
62As also get rather good reviews from crews.

I'm also a bit surprised by the track comments too - a fair amount of
track work has been done on the District so it's not as awful as it used
to be. Again it's not a brand new formation like the ELLX but I wouldn't
describe it as on the edge of collapse.

I wouldn't say that either. They actually achieve pretty good speeds
around South Kensington.

Stations - well some have been done but many have not because of the
Metronet collapse. There are some District Line stations that leave a
lot to be desired but that will be the case for a very long time given
money is being directed to new trains, signalling and track.

I've heard that they are going to have to lengthen platforms on some
parts of the sub-surface stations in order to accommodate the S stock.
As a result, we will not see them running on the Metropolitan Line east
of Baker Street for a while to come.

Any truth in that?

The D Stock is proving a little troublesome at present due to problems
with the bars that hold the current collection shoes. Cracks have been
found during the regular inspection regime so some trains are out of
service awaiting repair and a full fleet check is being / has been done
as is normal practice. The trains are over 30 years old so I guess it's
possible something might give out by now.

Thanks for that. Any idea how long that will take?

District distress
 

In article ,
Paul Corfield wrote:


Well you are swapping from a nearly new railway to one that awaits a
major modernisation. Even so I would not call the D Stock decrepit - OK
so they aren't air conditioned like 378s but they're roomy enough, have
been refurbished and I think they ride reasonably well. Compared to C
Stock they are a delight to use!

Yes, the contrast doesn't help. Yes, they are roomy but not very clean.

I'm also a bit surprised by the track comments too - a fair amount of
track work has been done on the District so it's not as awful as it used
to be. Again it's not a brand new formation like the ELLX but I wouldn't
describe it as on the edge of collapse.

My main complaint is the sheer slowness of the trains. They crawl along
even when not being held up (which they often are - yes I know the
junction doesn't help).

Yes, nothing is too terrible but the total package is not great. It
looks and feels just like old trains running on old infrastructure. Even
the old trains on the Paris metro seem to bustle along with a lot more
purpose.

E.

District distress
 

Paul Corfield wrote on 09 October 2010 23:11:36 ...
On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 22:22:08 +0100, wrote:

In ,
Paul wrote:

I'm also a bit surprised by the track comments too - a fair amount of
track work has been done on the District so it's not as awful as it used
to be. Again it's not a brand new formation like the ELLX but I wouldn't
describe it as on the edge of collapse.

My main complaint is the sheer slowness of the trains. They crawl along
even when not being held up (which they often are - yes I know the
junction doesn't help).

Yes, nothing is too terrible but the total package is not great. It
looks and feels just like old trains running on old infrastructure. Even
the old trains on the Paris metro seem to bustle along with a lot more
purpose.

Very true. In particular the MP59 (1959-vintage rubber-tyred trains)
rattle and bounce along in a very satisfying way. I suspect the noise
and ride quality give the impression of more speed than is actually the
case.

Mind you, the District's D stock is not short of power, but I agree that
there seems a lack of urgency about the service. Three times recently
I've been on a District train where the driver has announced that it's
running early and will be held for a minute or two. I'm used to that on
the Piccadilly, but not previously on the District. Have they caught
the Picadilly disease and slowed down the timetable?
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

District distress
 

On 09/10/2010 22:22, eastender wrote:
In ,
Paul wrote:


Well you are swapping from a nearly new railway to one that awaits a
major modernisation. Even so I would not call the D Stock decrepit - OK
so they aren't air conditioned like 378s but they're roomy enough, have
been refurbished and I think they ride reasonably well. Compared to C
Stock they are a delight to use!

Yes, the contrast doesn't help. Yes, they are roomy but not very clean.

I'm also a bit surprised by the track comments too - a fair amount of
track work has been done on the District so it's not as awful as it used
to be. Again it's not a brand new formation like the ELLX but I wouldn't
describe it as on the edge of collapse.

My main complaint is the sheer slowness of the trains. They crawl along
even when not being held up (which they often are - yes I know the
junction doesn't help).

They are most likely just obeying signals. The D and C stocks trains can
actually get up to some pretty decent speeds.

Yes, nothing is too terrible but the total package is not great. It
looks and feels just like old trains running on old infrastructure. Even
the old trains on the Paris metro seem to bustle along with a lot more
purpose.

A but whingey, aren't we?

District distress
 

The explanation I was given as to why the District (and Circle/H&C) is
sometimes driven at such a dull pace is because there's so much slack
in the timetable, the only gain from rushing means catching the next
train up, especially in town. It's better to cruise along at a merely
speed rather than stop-start-stop-start at every signal.

Despite that the trains are almost 30-35 years old, they can still be
very nippy when they want - especially on the long open sections to
Upminster/Wimbledon/Richmond.

District distress
 

In article
,
TRAXX F140 wrote:

The explanation I was given as to why the District (and Circle/H&C) is
sometimes driven at such a dull pace is because there's so much slack
in the timetable, the only gain from rushing means catching the next
train up, especially in town. It's better to cruise along at a merely
speed rather than stop-start-stop-start at every signal.

Despite that the trains are almost 30-35 years old, they can still be
very nippy when they want - especially on the long open sections to
Upminster/Wimbledon/Richmond.

I've just been on it again from Whitechapel to Temple. A long wait, no
working westbound train indicators at Whitechapel and the usual sluggish
progress, with the train cruising slowly into stations, and the
obligatory long red signal before Tower Hill.

E.

District distress
 

I agree about the speed issue, and seemingly nonsensical signal hold-
ups.

Why, for example, is the Eastbound District Line ALWAYS held up as it
approaches Earl's Court - from either the Wimbledon branch or from
West Kensington? There is no flat junction obstructing either entry.
There are also 2 platforms at Earl's Court, and rarely if ever does a
train from Wimbledon go into platform1 or a train from West Ken. go to
platform 2 (can't remember even if there are cross-overs allowing
this).

The last time I used the line, around 7.00a.m., even though there was
no train ahead of mine for at least 10 minutes, my train from West
Kensington was held up at red signals outside Earl's Court for a
couple of minutes. Why? There cannot have been a train ahead of it on
the same line, with the 10+ minute headway already described. When it
entered the station on platform 1, platform 2 was empty as well.

It's one of the many factors that makes me avoid using the Underground
at all costs. Funnily enough, at that time in the morning, it's
quicker (and far more comfortable and less hassle) to get an 11 bus
from Fulham to Liverpool Street than using the Underground, especially
with the now complulsory platform change, using stairs, at Edgware
Road or a walk of many hundreds of yards if using the Central Line via
Notting Hill Gate.

M.M.

District distress
 

wrote in message
...
I agree about the speed issue, and seemingly nonsensical signal hold-
ups.

Why, for example, is the Eastbound District Line ALWAYS held up as it
approaches Earl's Court - from either the Wimbledon branch or from
West Kensington? There is no flat junction obstructing either entry.
There are also 2 platforms at Earl's Court, and rarely if ever does a
train from Wimbledon go into platform1 or a train from West Ken. go to
platform 2 (can't remember even if there are cross-overs allowing
this).

There is no route from the Wimbledon branch to platform 1 (according to
current Quail), but there is from West Ken to P2.

Paul S

District distress
 

On 12 Oct, 19:49, "Paul Scott" wrote:
wrote in message

...

I agree about the speed issue, and seemingly nonsensical signal hold-
ups.

Why, for example, is the Eastbound District Line ALWAYS held up as it
approaches Earl's Court - from either the Wimbledon branch or from
West Kensington? There is no flat junction obstructing either entry.
There are also 2 platforms at Earl's Court, and rarely if ever does a
train from Wimbledon go into platform1 or a train from West Ken. go to
platform 2 (can't remember even if there are cross-overs allowing
this).

There is no route from the Wimbledon branch to platform 1 (according to
current Quail), but there is from West Ken to P2.

Paul S

But there is a route from Olympia to platform 1 (and 2). There's a
train currently arriving Earl's Court at 0712, for example.

District distress
 

"MIG" wrote in message
...
On 12 Oct, 19:49, "Paul Scott" wrote:
wrote in message

...

I agree about the speed issue, and seemingly nonsensical signal hold-
ups.

Why, for example, is the Eastbound District Line ALWAYS held up as it
approaches Earl's Court - from either the Wimbledon branch or from
West Kensington? There is no flat junction obstructing either entry.
There are also 2 platforms at Earl's Court, and rarely if ever does a
train from Wimbledon go into platform1 or a train from West Ken. go to
platform 2 (can't remember even if there are cross-overs allowing
this).

There is no route from the Wimbledon branch to platform 1 (according to
current Quail), but there is from West Ken to P2.

Paul S

But there is a route from Olympia to platform 1 (and 2). There's a
train currently arriving Earl's Court at 0712, for example.

I was really only intending to point out that a train from Wimbledon can't
reach platform 1. As you say ex-Olympia trains are another potential
conflict.

Paul S

District distress
 

On 12 Oct, 22:27, MIG wrote:
On 12 Oct, 19:49, "Paul Scott" wrote:





wrote in message

....

I agree about the speed issue, and seemingly nonsensical signal hold-
ups.

Why, for example, is the Eastbound District Line ALWAYS held up as it
approaches Earl's Court - from either the Wimbledon branch or from
West Kensington? There is no flat junction obstructing either entry.
There are also 2 platforms at Earl's Court, and rarely if ever does a
train from Wimbledon go into platform1 or a train from West Ken. go to
platform 2 (can't remember even if there are cross-overs allowing
this).

There is no route from the Wimbledon branch to platform 1 (according to
current Quail), but there is from West Ken to P2.

Paul S

But there is a route from Olympia to platform 1 (and 2). *There's a
train currently arriving Earl's Court at 0712, for example.

And I should have said one leaving Earls Court at 0702 and crossing
all routes on the flat (given that from High Street Ken it's only
possible to get to platform 4, a departure to Olympia has to block
every track at some point, except the one from Wimbledon to platform
2).

District distress
 

Thanks for those helpful insights. So Olympia trains (to/from) have
the potential to block any line EXCEPT the line from Wimbledon into
platform 2, which has nothing obstructing it (except of course another
train in platform 2)?

M.M.

District distress
 

On 13 Oct, 11:49, " wrote:
Thanks for those helpful insights. So Olympia trains (to/from) have
the potential to block any line EXCEPT the line from Wimbledon into
platform 2, which has nothing obstructing it (except of course another
train in platform 2)?

M.M.

Yes, basically. They have to start from platform 4, which they
occupy, and they have to cross to the track from platform 3 towards
either West Brompton or West Kensington, conflicting with anything
from platform 3. They duck under the track from West Brompton and
then cross the line from West Kensington on the flat.

District distress
 

In article
,
" wrote:

I agree about the speed issue, and seemingly nonsensical signal hold-
ups.

This morning on a return journey from Dalston J to Temple the District
line driver decided he had to visit 'the smallest room in the house' at
Mansion House, explaining that we'd only be going slowly anyway.

At least the westbound indicators at Whitechapel were working.

But the ELL had a brainstorm - leaving Dalston we were told the next
stop was Norwood Junction, and then at Hoxton we were told this is
Dalston Junction, all change. After that it gave up. On the way back the
announcements and indicators were off.

E.