Entering and leaving a station within a few moments
 

I entered Sudbury hill on the pic line. I realised that there were
severe delays from the announcement. By that time I had already
touched in.
I touched out within 30 seconds of touching in and thought nothing of
it.
The next day £4.20 was taken from my card sudbury hill- sudbury hill.
The guys at the window told me to call the oyster helpline. I was
advised that the credit would be put back on but I have to touch in
within 8 days at a certain station. I nominated kings cross, and was
told that I have to touch in at the piccadilly victoria line entrance
to get my credit back.

The whole system is a farce. On the print out from the ticket office
there is no sudbury hill- sudbury hill journey. It just says pre pay
exit sudbury hill. But at the ticket machine this is clearly visible.
What is going on?

Entering and leaving a station within a few moments
 

On 17 Oct, 20:16, GSV 3 minds in a can wrote:
I entered Sudbury hill on the pic line. I realised that there were
severe delays from the announcement. By that time I had already
touched in.
I touched out within 30 seconds of touching in and thought nothing of
it.
The next day £4.20 was taken from my card sudbury hill- sudbury hill.
The guys at the window told me to call the oyster helpline. I was
advised that the credit would be put back on but I have to touch in
within 8 days at a certain station. I nominated kings cross, and was
told that I have to touch in at the piccadilly victoria line entrance
to get my credit back.

The whole system is a farce. On the print out from the ticket office
there is no sudbury hill- sudbury hill journey. It just says pre pay
exit sudbury hill. But at the ticket machine this is clearly visible.
What is going on?

I am not helping answer this question, but I wonder if someone can
explain how "maximum" fare are calculated now, with all the NR and LU
possibilities? (Although I don't know that maximum fares explain
£4.20, which doesn't seem to be enough for two maximum fares, ie
Sudbury Hill to unknown, plus unknown to Sudbury Hill.)

They are apparently "up to" £7. But given that the reason for
charging maximum fares is that the system doesn't know where you went,
on what basis can it ever calculate a different maximum fare from the
maximum maximum fare?

Entering and leaving a station within a few moments
 

On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 20:16:43 +0100, GSV 3 minds in a can
wrote:
I entered Sudbury hill on the pic line. I realised that there were
severe delays from the announcement. By that time I had already
touched in.
I touched out within 30 seconds of touching in and thought nothing of
it.
The next day £4.20 was taken from my card sudbury hill- sudbury hill.

This vindicates my decision not to touch out or touch back in in similar
circumstances yesterday. I just missed a train, with 10 minutes to wait
till the next one, so I came out again to make a phone call.

I explained what I was doing to the station supervisor.

But here's another question for the assembled wise ones. It would have
been useful to use the time topping up my PAYG, as I wasted time doing
this later. Does anyone know what happens if you attempt to top up an
Oyster Card while it's in touched-in state?

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at the
population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

Entering and leaving a station within a few moments
 

On 17 Oct, 21:46, "Colin McKenzie" wrote:
On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 20:16:43 +0100, GSV 3 minds in a can *

wrote:
I entered Sudbury hill on the pic line. I realised that there were
severe delays from the announcement. By that time I had already
touched in.
I touched out within 30 seconds of touching in and thought nothing of
it.
The next day £4.20 was taken from my card sudbury hill- sudbury hill.

This vindicates my decision not to touch out or touch back in in similar *
circumstances yesterday. I just missed a train, with 10 minutes to wait *
till the next one, so I came out again to make a phone call.

I explained what I was doing to the station supervisor.

But here's another question for the assembled wise ones. It would have *
been useful to use the time topping up my PAYG, as I wasted time doing *
this later. Does anyone know what happens if you attempt to top up an *
Oyster Card while it's in touched-in state?

Hmm. Certainly topping up at an OSI (journey still open) doesn't do
any harm, because I've topped up at Canary Wharf before touching back
in at Heron Quays to continue a journey.

That's not actually touched in though.

Touching in when already touched in certainly does unresolve the first
journey (and in my case presumably would have started a new one, if
only the maximum fare hadn't taken my balance too low).

Topping up when touched in; dunno. Maybe you will have to volunteer
to do the experiment?

It ought not normally be possible at a station with barriers, but it
might reasonably be attempted at a DLR station where the pad and
ticket machine might be adjacent.

Entering and leaving a station within a few moments
 

"MIG" wrote in message
...

They are apparently "up to" £7. But given that the reason for
charging maximum fares is that the system doesn't know where you went,
on what basis can it ever calculate a different maximum fare from the
maximum maximum fare?

I think you might be reading too much into 'up to £7.00'. There are only
two possible LU entry charges (aka max cash fares), peak £6.00, and off-peak
£4.30.

AIUI higher max cash fares are only charged at origins outside the zones
when NR fares are involved.

The £4.00 entry charge for an uncompleted journey prior to Jan 2010 was
potentially less than the correct fare in the peaks, which is why they
changed it to £6.00

Paul S

Entering and leaving a station within a few moments
 

On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 12:16:43 -0700 (PDT), GSV 3 minds in a can
wrote:

The whole system is a farce.

I think that's an exaggeration. But I do agree that if you touch in
then out again very quickly at the same station such that you couldn't
possibly have made a journey (within, say, 10 minutes), that it should
be free.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK
To reply put my first name before the at.

Entering and leaving a station within a few moments
 

On 17 Oct, 21:56, "Paul Scott" wrote:
"MIG" wrote in message

...



They are apparently "up to" £7. *But given that the reason for
charging maximum fares is that the system doesn't know where you went,
on what basis can it ever calculate a different maximum fare from the
maximum maximum fare?

I think you might be reading too much into 'up to £7.00'. *There are only
two possible LU entry charges (aka max cash fares), peak £6.00, and off-peak
£4.30.

AIUI higher max cash fares are only charged at origins outside the zones
when NR fares are involved.

The £4.00 entry charge for an uncompleted journey prior to Jan 2010 was
potentially less than the correct fare in the peaks, which is why they
changed it to £6.00

Paul S

Yes, I guessed it must be down to the virtual amount deducted on
touching in, but I can't see the logic of not assuming that you've
gone to Watford (and beyond). Thinking about it, an unresolved
journey is more likely to start on LU and end on NR than the other way
round.

Entering and leaving a station within a few moments
 

"Neil Williams" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 12:16:43 -0700 (PDT), GSV 3 minds in a can
wrote:

The whole system is a farce.

I think that's an exaggeration. But I do agree that if you touch in
then out again very quickly at the same station such that you couldn't
possibly have made a journey (within, say, 10 minutes), that it should
be free.

That could result in people entering, then touching the exit gate and
not going through to get free entry to the system.

Peter Smyth

Entering and leaving a station within a few moments
 

In message , at 00:24:51 on Mon, 18 Oct
2010, Peter Smyth remarked:
I do agree that if you touch in
then out again very quickly at the same station such that you couldn't
possibly have made a journey (within, say, 10 minutes), that it should
be free.

That could result in people entering, then touching the exit gate and
not going through to get free entry to the system.

s/could/would/

One again revenue protection, and preventing the cheats, makes life
difficult for the rest of us.
--
Roland Perry

Entering and leaving a station within a few moments
 

On Mon, 18 Oct 2010 00:24:51 +0100
"Peter Smyth" wrote:
"Neil Williams" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 17 Oct 2010 12:16:43 -0700 (PDT), GSV 3 minds in a can
wrote:

The whole system is a farce.

I think that's an exaggeration. But I do agree that if you touch in
then out again very quickly at the same station such that you couldn't
possibly have made a journey (within, say, 10 minutes), that it should
be free.

That could result in people entering, then touching the exit gate and
not going through to get free entry to the system.

They still have to get out again. And if they touch their oyster on an
exit gate they'll get stiffed for the maximum fare. Unless they vault over
the gates of course but those sorts of people wouldn't pay anyway.

B2003