2011 Fares
 

Information available via

http://www.london.gov.uk/who-runs-lo...ecisions/md698

and

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/17092.aspx

Not looked at it in detail so no comments.

--
Paul C
via Google

2011 Fares
 

On 21 Oct, 12:28, Paul Corfield wrote:
Information available via

http://www.london.gov.uk/who-runs-lo...ecisions/md698

and

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/17092.aspx

Not looked at it in detail so no comments.

--
Paul C
via Google

Do you think it would ever be possible to have a flat fare on the
tube, and if so how much would it be.

New York manages with a flat fare of $2.25, and also 1, 7,14 and 30
day passes at $8.25, $13.50, $27,75 and $89.00 respectively. I
realise that a lot would depend on the level of subsidy available, and
perhaps today is not a good day to be talking about subsidy!

However looking at the 2011 off peak oyster fares that include Zone 1
there are only three fares (£1.90, £2.50 and £2.70) Excluding Zone 1
there are only two fares (£1.30 and £1.40) It seems to me that there
might be a case for merging some of the outer fare zones in order to
simplify the structure a little bit. I don't know what visitors to the
Olympics in 2012 will think.

2011 Fares
 

"Paul" wrote in message

On 21 Oct, 12:28, Paul Corfield wrote:
Information available via

http://www.london.gov.uk/who-runs-lo...ecisions/md698

and

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/17092.aspx

Not looked at it in detail so no comments.

--
Paul C
via Google

Do you think it would ever be possible to have a flat fare on the
tube, and if so how much would it be.

New York manages with a flat fare of $2.25, and also 1, 7,14 and 30
day passes at $8.25, $13.50, $27,75 and $89.00 respectively. I
realise that a lot would depend on the level of subsidy available, and
perhaps today is not a good day to be talking about subsidy!

However looking at the 2011 off peak oyster fares that include Zone 1
there are only three fares (£1.90, £2.50 and £2.70) Excluding Zone 1
there are only two fares (£1.30 and £1.40)

But the peak fares, including zone 1, will range from £1.90 to £4.50.
Excluding zone 1, they'll range from £1.40 to £2.50. Presumably the
idea is to discourage long distance peak travel, but make off-peak
travel over any distance attractive.

2011 Fares
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
Information available via

http://www.london.gov.uk/who-runs-lo...ecisions/md698

and

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/17092.aspx

Not looked at it in detail so no comments.

Off peak fares to be charged contra-flow during the evening peak.

Can't find the Zones 1-6 cap anywhere (found 1-2 and 1-9).

tim

2011 Fares
 

On 21 Oct, 18:14, "tim...." wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

...

Information available via

http://www.london.gov.uk/who-runs-lo...ecisions/md698

and

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/17092.aspx

Not looked at it in detail so no comments.

Off peak fares to be charged contra-flow during the evening peak.

Can't find the Zones 1-6 cap anywhere (found 1-2 and 1-9).

tim

It has really pist off the journalists, hasn't it, this burying of bad
news on CSR day?

They are saying that it's the start of an attempt to phase out
travelcards.

Given how an Oyster OSI ****up has just saddled me with a penalty
fare, and I can't be the only one, this is extremely bad news.

2011 Fares
 

On Oct 21, 6:36 pm, MIG wrote:

On 21 Oct, 18:14, "tim...." wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote:

Information available via

http://www.london.gov.uk/who-runs-lo...ecisions/md698

and

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/17092.aspx

Not looked at it in detail so no comments.

Off peak fares to be charged contra-flow during the evening peak.

Can't find the Zones 1-6 cap anywhere (found 1-2 and 1-9).

It has really pist off the journalists, hasn't it, this burying of bad
news on CSR day?

They are saying that it's the start of an attempt to phase out
travelcards.

Given how an Oyster OSI ****up has just saddled me with a penalty
fare, and I can't be the only one, this is extremely bad news.

Is anyone actually saying it's the start of an attempt to completely
phase out Travelcards? (I mean, apart from you?)

Lets have a look at what's happening here.

First off, one should note that Day Travelcards and Oyster PAYG daily
caps now exactly mirror each other (they have done so since the
beginning of this year, previously Oyster caps were set at 50p below
the then quasi-equivalent Day Travelcard price) - so all changes

What is being 'phased out' aka got rid of can be seen on the table of
page 12 of the MD678 document [1], and it consists of:

(a) a selection of Anytime (aka Peak) Day Travelcards and therefore
also the Oyster caps that match these - so the Anytime 1-3, 1-5 and
2-6 Day Travelcards and related caps;

(b) and also the Off-peak 2-6 Day Travelcard and related cap (which I
have to say that personally I'm particularly annoyed about, but I'll
come back to that later).

It seems to me these changes are just ways of eking that bit more
revenue out of the system - of course the prices of all (the
remaining) Day Travelcards and hence daily caps are going up too, and
by rather more than the headline 6.8% increase in TfL fares.

So it might take a journey (or maybe two? - haven't looked at it that
closely yet) more to hit a cap (or justify the purchase of a Day
Travelcard), but that does not in and of itself mean that the Day
Travelcard is being phased out.

And yes of course season Travelcards are going up too, so this might
again tip 'borderline' punters towards PAYG instead of buying a season
Travelcard - but my understanding is that Travelcard prices (both
season and Day - at least the off-peak flavour) were actually held
down in price at the Jan 2010 fares change because of the rail fares
regulatory mechanism which linked it to RPI (and there hadn't been any
inflation).

Indeed I recall Boris saying something like 'the Travelcard prices
were only held down for political reasons' (which translates as it
being a central government restraint which was out of his hands),
though as I recall that didn't stop other parts of the Boris PR
machine trumpeting the 'frozen' Travelcard fares.

I haven't entirely got my head around it, but I assume that the
announcement in the CSR about rail fares rising by RPI+2% is what has
enabled these Travelcard price rises - so whilst indeed I imagine it
was rather convenient for the Mayor to announce these new fares on the
same day as the CSR, and hence hope some of the bad news got drowned
out, it couldn't have been announced any earlier (else it would have
given the game away w.r.t. the above inflation rail fares rises -
well, we all knew it was coming, but it would have confirmed it).

One last thing - yes, Oyster Ticket Stops are going to stop selling
printed Day Travelcards - so that's a phasing out of sorts. Can't say
I'm really at all surprised by that - indeed, I'm sure it's been part
of the game plan, what with the withdrawal from newsagents of the
machines that printed tickets and had Oyster pads retrofitted in
favour of the much simpler, all electronic/ no moving parts Oyster
'Pearl' devices - I didn't imagine that newsagents going back to the
old ways of having a stock of pre-printed Travelcards kept in an ice-
cream box under the counter, and stamping the date on them, would last
all that long! So yes, those who specifically want a Day Travelcard
over using Oyster will now need to get to a station in order to buy
one.

-----
[1] MD678:
http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/defau...on%20PDF.pd f

2011 Fares
 

On 21 Oct, 19:52, Mizter T wrote:
On Oct 21, 6:36 pm, MIG wrote:





On 21 Oct, 18:14, "tim...." wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote:

Information available via

http://www.london.gov.uk/who-runs-lo...ecisions/md698

and

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/medi...tre/17092.aspx

Not looked at it in detail so no comments.

Off peak fares to be charged contra-flow during the evening peak.

Can't find the Zones 1-6 cap anywhere (found 1-2 and 1-9).

It has really pist off the journalists, hasn't it, this burying of bad
news on CSR day?

They are saying that it's the start of an attempt to phase out
travelcards.

Given how an Oyster OSI ****up has just saddled me with a penalty
fare, and I can't be the only one, this is extremely bad news.

Is anyone actually saying it's the start of an attempt to completely
phase out Travelcards? (I mean, apart from you?)

No one apart from me, because I didn't say it. It's just been said on
the BBC London News, and probably elsewhere.

I haven't even read the changes in detail. I was just commenting on
the media response.

2011 Fares
 

On 21/10/2010 19:52, Mizter T wrote:


all that long! So yes, those who specifically want a Day Travelcard
over using Oyster will now need to get to a station in order to buy
one.

Is it possible to get Gold Card limited Oyster fare capping yet, or is
dead tree still cheaper than Oyster? I haven't asked around for some time.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

2011 Fares
 

On Oct 21, 8:00*pm, MIG wrote:

On 21 Oct, 19:52, Mizter T wrote:

On Oct 21, 6:36 pm, MIG wrote:

It has really pist off the journalists, hasn't it, this burying of bad
news on CSR day?

They are saying that it's the start of an attempt to phase out
travelcards.

Given how an Oyster OSI ****up has just saddled me with a penalty
fare, and I can't be the only one, this is extremely bad news.

Is anyone actually saying it's the start of an attempt to completely
phase out Travelcards? (I mean, apart from you?)

No one apart from me, because I didn't say it. *It's just been said on
the BBC London News, and probably elsewhere.

I haven't even read the changes in detail. *I was just commenting on
the media response.

OK, sorry - afraid I rarely seem to watch the local television news
bulletins these days, so their take on matters rather passes me by -
that said the Beeb's London news operation seems relatively well
versed in matters transportational, though I'm more likely to pick up
on their output on the web, or perhaps BBC London radio (though time
constraints mean it'll only ever be a snippet).

Haven't picked up a copy of the Standard today, but looking at their
main news page on the web the new fares don't feature prominently...
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/news/

....though once you find it there's a decent piece on the changes from
Pippa Crerar (whom I rate) he
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23890196-.do

It's not a forensic analysis but I wouldn't expect that either. She
seems to confirm my earlier thoughts about the CSR announcements
w.r.t. changes to rail fares regulation pathing the way for the
Travelcard price increases (something that was definitively off the
agenda last year) - though not sure where I got RPI+2% from, as she
mentions a 6% rise.

2011 Fares
 

On Oct 21, 3:01*pm, Paul wrote:

Do you think it would ever be possible to have a flat fare on the
tube, and if so how much would it be.

New York manages with a flat fare of $2.25, and also 1, 7,14 and 30
day passes at $8.25, $13.50, $27,75 and $89.00 respectively. *I
realise that a lot would depend on the level of subsidy available, and
perhaps today is not a good day to be talking about subsidy!

However looking at the 2011 off peak oyster fares that include Zone 1
there are only three fares (£1.90, £2.50 and £2.70) Excluding Zone 1
there are only two fares (£1.30 and £1.40) *It seems to me that there
might be a case for merging some of the outer fare zones in order to
simplify the structure a little bit. I don't know what visitors to the
Olympics in 2012 will think.

AIUI travel passes (which I assume would include Travelcard
functionality) are to be included with Olympics Games tickets. Not
sure of the details though - I guess it might well just cover the day
of the event. Otherwise visitors will do what they do now - either buy
a Travelcard of some sort (of which there are visitor versions are
available for purchase before arrival), or use Oyster and get capped
as appropriate (cue MIG).

2011 Fares
 

On Oct 21, 8:21*pm, Arthur Figgis wrote:

On 21/10/2010 19:52, Mizter T wrote:

all that long! So yes, those who specifically want a Day Travelcard
over using Oyster will now need to get to a station in order to buy
one.

Is it possible to get Gold Card limited Oyster fare capping yet, or is
dead tree still cheaper than Oyster? I haven't asked around for some time..

Gold Card-discounted Oyster PAYG capping (i.e. the GC equivalent to
having a Railcard discount loaded on one's Oyster card) now exists -
it went live in January I think?

Anyhow, confirmation that it exists is on the TfL website he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14414.aspx#tkt-tab-panel-9

I assume that if one has a Gold Card season loaded on Oyster it just
works. Though people I know who used to get inboundary Gold Cards
don't seem to do so any more.

2011 Fares
 

On 21 Oct, 20:22, Mizter T wrote:
On Oct 21, 8:00*pm, MIG wrote:





On 21 Oct, 19:52, Mizter T wrote:

On Oct 21, 6:36 pm, MIG wrote:

It has really pist off the journalists, hasn't it, this burying of bad
news on CSR day?

They are saying that it's the start of an attempt to phase out
travelcards.

Given how an Oyster OSI ****up has just saddled me with a penalty
fare, and I can't be the only one, this is extremely bad news.

Is anyone actually saying it's the start of an attempt to completely
phase out Travelcards? (I mean, apart from you?)

No one apart from me, because I didn't say it. *It's just been said on
the BBC London News, and probably elsewhere.

I haven't even read the changes in detail. *I was just commenting on
the media response.

OK, sorry - afraid I rarely seem to watch the local television news
bulletins these days, so their take on matters rather passes me by -
that said the Beeb's London news operation seems relatively well
versed in matters transportational, though I'm more likely to pick up
on their output on the web, or perhaps BBC London radio (though time
constraints mean it'll only ever be a snippet).

Haven't picked up a copy of the Standard today, but looking at their
main news page on the web the new fares don't feature prominently...
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/news/

...though once you find it there's a decent piece on the changes from
Pippa Crerar (whom I rate) he
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23890196-.do

It's not a forensic analysis but I wouldn't expect that either. She
seems to confirm my earlier thoughts about the CSR announcements
w.r.t. changes to rail fares regulation pathing the way for the
Travelcard price increases (something that was definitively off the
agenda last year) - though not sure where I got RPI+2% from, as she
mentions a 6% rise.

This report http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11598617 is
focusing on what they are calling a 74% rise. The main theme of
reports I half saw/heard was that Boris was hiding the bad news on CSR
day, after giving a press conference with partial information and
giving journalists partial printouts, when it hadn't been billed as an
announcement of the new fares.

Peter Hendy came on to say that they weren't hiding anything and had
got round to releasing all the information by now, some of it today.

It seemed to be largely a story about journalists being peeved at what
they obviously perceived as an attempt to hoodwink them. That's
presumably why they are hitting back with the 74% instead of going
along with any different spin. I am pretty sure that it was one of
the journalists who made the comment about phasing out travelcards,
but I was frying potato-related foods and wasn't taking notes.

You raised an interesting point though. If capping can't very well
exceed the cost of travelcards, and travelcards are subject to
regulation, aren't day travelcards keeping the PAYG fares down? So
there's motivation anyway.

And as we know, PAYG fares aren't that cheap when they land you with a
£20 penalty fare plus escalating admin fees. Perhaps they ought to
pull their collective finger out and fix PAYG before offering it as
the wonderful, cheap alternative?

2011 Fares
 

On Oct 21, 8:10*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
[snip]
The move to simplify the ODTC range looks to be very controversial
judging from press, blog and political reaction. *I suspect the public
may react rather badly to this come January because it also links to
capping levels.
[snip]

Well I'm annoyed, if not actually rather angry, about the withdrawal
of the zones 2-6 Day Travelcard and hence Oyster PAYG cap.

This is the spiel from TfL via the BBC News online story:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11598617

---quote---
Transport for London (TfL) said Zone 2-6 travelcards were used by
fewer than 6,000 passengers a day, including just 300 people during
peak times.
---/quote---

One simple question - does that "fewer than 6,000 passengers a day"
figure include those who use Oyster PAYG and get capped for z2-6, or
does it solely relate to the sale of printed paper Day Travelcards?

If it's just the latter, then that's some sleight of hand - if anyone
reading this is in a position to ask the TfL press bods for
clarification on this matter then that'd be good. (And on the
associated 300 figure for Anytime/peak z2-6 sales.)

(I'm tempted to think that post introduction of PAYG on NR, lots more
people may have been reaching the z2-6 cap.)

I've got other comments on the rest of it, so I'll come back to this
thread to post more sometime later. But this z2-6 withdrawal is a bit
of a joke - why should people pay for expensive zone 1 validity if
they don't go in it?

Perhaps we should have a fares strike...

2011 Fares
 

On 21 Oct, 22:05, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:40:48 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:







On Oct 21, 8:10*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:
[snip]
The move to simplify the ODTC range looks to be very controversial
judging from press, blog and political reaction. *I suspect the public
may react rather badly to this come January because it also links to
capping levels.
[snip]

Well I'm annoyed, if not actually rather angry, about the withdrawal
of the zones 2-6 Day Travelcard and hence Oyster PAYG cap.

This is the spiel from TfL via the BBC News online story:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11598617

---quote---
Transport for London (TfL) said Zone 2-6 travelcards were used by
fewer than 6,000 passengers a day, including just 300 people during
peak times.
---/quote---

One simple question - does that "fewer than 6,000 passengers a day"
figure include those who use Oyster PAYG and get capped for z2-6, or
does it solely relate to the sale of printed paper Day Travelcards?

If it's just the latter, then that's some sleight of hand - if anyone
reading this is in a position to ask the TfL press bods for
clarification on this matter then that'd be good. (And on the
associated 300 figure for Anytime/peak z2-6 sales.)

Oh I expect the press office will be watching the comments.

I think your question is perfectly sensible in the light of the decision
that has been taken. I can't comment any further.

I suspect there will be some interesting Mayoral Questions about the
fares package from Assembly members at the next MQT. *They were already
"revving up" in the last one - the old favourite of the "1 hour transfer
ticket" reappeared.

(I'm tempted to think that post introduction of PAYG on NR, lots more
people may have been reaching the z2-6 cap.)

I've got other comments on the rest of it, so I'll come back to this
thread to post more sometime later. But this z2-6 withdrawal is a bit
of a joke - why should people pay for expensive zone 1 validity if
they don't go in it?

Thinking about it a bit more it seems almost counter intuitive when we
are getting closer to actually having a full orbital railway which will
(almost) avoid all of zone 1.

Won't the main effect of this be to encourage people away from PAYG in
favour of seasons?

A seven-day zone 2 - 6 will be £34.40, so if you did it every day,
that's still a lot less than five times the old price peak cap (£43).
Plus you get weekends.

2011 Fares
 

On Oct 21, 11:08*pm, MIG wrote:

On 21 Oct, 22:05, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:40:48 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:
[snip]
I've got other comments on the rest of it, so I'll come back to this
thread to post more sometime later. But this z2-6 withdrawal is a bit
of a joke - why should people pay for expensive zone 1 validity if
they don't go in it?

Thinking about it a bit more it seems almost counter intuitive when we
are getting closer to actually having a full orbital railway which will
(almost) avoid all of zone 1.

Won't the main effect of this be to encourage people away from PAYG in
favour of seasons?

A seven-day zone 2 - 6 will be £34.40, so if you did it every day,
that's still a lot less than five times the old price peak cap (£43).
Plus you get weekends.

I don't think daily price capping wasn't ever intended to serve as an
alternative to seasons for people with regular 5 day a week commutes -
furthermore I don't think 5x Anytime/peak price cap (for whatever
zones) has ever been cheaper than buying a weekly Travelcard for the
relevant zones.

Depending upon the journey, using PAYG to pay for singles can be or
has been cheaper than buying a season Travelcard for a regular 5 days
a week commute (though the calculus shifts each year with the annual
fares changes) - however it's all very much down to an individuals
expected travel patterns (e.g. how many days they won't make the
standard commute, how much extra travel they do on top of commuting,
and indeed if any of the commuting journeys might start in the off-
peak PAYG window and thus be charged as such etc etc). Also, because
of the '52 weeks for the price of 40' factor, an annual Travelcard
might still work out cheaper than PAYG in such circumstances.

2011 Fares
 

On 22 Oct, 00:57, Mizter T wrote:
On Oct 21, 11:08*pm, MIG wrote:





On 21 Oct, 22:05, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 13:40:48 -0700 (PDT), Mizter T
wrote:
[snip]
I've got other comments on the rest of it, so I'll come back to this
thread to post more sometime later. But this z2-6 withdrawal is a bit
of a joke - why should people pay for expensive zone 1 validity if
they don't go in it?

Thinking about it a bit more it seems almost counter intuitive when we
are getting closer to actually having a full orbital railway which will
(almost) avoid all of zone 1.

Won't the main effect of this be to encourage people away from PAYG in
favour of seasons?

A seven-day zone 2 - 6 will be £34.40, so if you did it every day,
that's still a lot less than five times the old price peak cap (£43).
Plus you get weekends.

I don't think daily price capping wasn't ever intended to serve as an
alternative to seasons for people with regular 5 day a week commutes -
furthermore I don't think 5x Anytime/peak price cap (for whatever
zones) has ever been cheaper than buying a weekly Travelcard for the
relevant zones.

No, just that the change will tip the balance in favour of weeklys for
more people than now.

In fact, even five times the off peak cap was generally more expensive
than a weekly, although that gradually changed up till just before the
cap was raised to the travelcard rate, and now it's well and truly
cheaper to get the weekly, plus have peak travel, plus have the
weekend.


Depending upon the journey, using PAYG to pay for singles can be or
has been cheaper than buying a season Travelcard for a regular 5 days
a week commute (though the calculus shifts each year with the annual
fares changes) - however it's all very much down to an individuals
expected travel patterns (e.g. how many days they won't make the
standard commute, how much extra travel they do on top of commuting,
and indeed if any of the commuting journeys might start in the off-
peak PAYG window and thus be charged as such etc etc).

Yes, as in the week before holiday after a longer season had run out,
I might opt for doing a £2.30 plus £1.80 (total £4.10) five times a
week, which was cheaper than a zone 1 - 2 weekly if I didn't think I
was going anywhere at the weekend.

But it would mean being disciplined about getting up early enough not
to need NR and staying at work long enough not to start home in the
peak. Doesn't always work out as planned.

Also, because
of the '52 weeks for the price of 40' factor, an annual Travelcard
might still work out cheaper than PAYG in such circumstances.

Only who knows if they'll be in a job that long?

2011 Fares
 

On 21/10/2010 20:42, Mizter T wrote:

On Oct 21, 8:21 pm, Arthur wrote:

On 21/10/2010 19:52, Mizter T wrote:

all that long! So yes, those who specifically want a Day Travelcard
over using Oyster will now need to get to a station in order to buy
one.

Is it possible to get Gold Card limited Oyster fare capping yet, or is
dead tree still cheaper than Oyster? I haven't asked around for some time.

Gold Card-discounted Oyster PAYG capping (i.e. the GC equivalent to
having a Railcard discount loaded on one's Oyster card) now exists -
it went live in January I think?

Must have been later than that, as I've tried and failed this year.

Anyhow, confirmation that it exists is on the TfL website he
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14414.aspx#tkt-tab-panel-9

I assume that if one has a Gold Card season loaded on Oyster it just
works. Though people I know who used to get inboundary Gold Cards
don't seem to do so any more.

Mine is point-to-point National Rail since they did away with
single-zone annual travel cards, and still on paper.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

2011 Fares
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:14:38 +0100, "tim...."
wrote:


The other interesting points I spotted is the stated ambition to try to
harmonise TfL and TOC PAYG tariffs and also the moves on child and
student discount levels with the TOCs. Railcard reductions on PAYG
rates (not just caps) will apply to the LUL and DLR PAYG off peak rates
from January 2011 (section 1.17 of the MD document).

Presumably not Network card discounts? When are they going to make that
available?

tim

2011 Fares
 

On Oct 22, 12:07*pm, "tim...." wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

...

On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:14:38 +0100, "tim...."
wrote:

The other interesting points I spotted is the stated ambition to try to
harmonise TfL and TOC PAYG tariffs and also the moves on child and
student discount levels with the TOCs. * Railcard reductions on PAYG
rates (not just caps) will apply to the LUL and DLR PAYG off peak rates
from January 2011 (section 1.17 of the MD document).

Presumably not Network card discounts? *When are they going to make that
available?

they didn't seem keen on the idea back in February:
http://mqt.london.gov.uk/mqt/public/...on.do?id=30225

2011 Fares
 

On Oct 21, 9:40*pm, Mizter T wrote:

One simple question - does that "fewer than 6,000 passengers a day"
figure include those who use Oyster PAYG and get capped for z2-6, or
does it solely relate to the sale of printed paper Day Travelcards?

If it's just the latter, then that's some sleight of hand - if anyone
reading this is in a position to ask the TfL press bods for
clarification on this matter then that'd be good. (And on the
associated 300 figure for Anytime/peak z2-6 sales.)

I see someone's taken a similar question to TfL's FoI people:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...ter_cards_havi

2011 Fares
 

On Oct 22, 12:30 pm, martin wrote:

On Oct 21, 9:40 pm, Mizter T wrote:

One simple question - does that "fewer than 6,000 passengers a day"
figure include those who use Oyster PAYG and get capped for z2-6, or
does it solely relate to the sale of printed paper Day Travelcards?

If it's just the latter, then that's some sleight of hand - if anyone
reading this is in a position to ask the TfL press bods for
clarification on this matter then that'd be good. (And on the
associated 300 figure for Anytime/peak z2-6 sales.)

I see someone's taken a similar question to TfL's FoI people:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/reques...ter_cards_havi


Good stuff - so hopefully it'll come out eventually - but what's really
needed now is for Assembly members to effectively press this question next
week whilst it's all still live (and indeed related questions w.r.t.
Anytime/peak capping for zones 1-3 and 1-5).

To do so, they need to properly get their heads around it (it's not really
very complicated), so they're not subsequently fobbed off by any
misdirection such as references to (printed paper) Day Travelcards when the
question related to Oyster PAYG caps. (Yes the two things are linked -
that's the point, they need to ensure that any answers from TfL don't just
refer to one of them, i.e. Day Travelcards - rather, they should get TfL to
provide distinct figures for both of them, i.e. Day Travelcards *and* PAYG
capping, but provide them at the same time, in the same answer.)

One can imagine that at MQT Boris will either not understand it himself, or
perhaps rather more to the point make out he doesn't quite understand it,
and by implication suggest that it's all a very arcane and obscure matter
pertaining to complex fares tables - but it's actually pretty simple, so he
shouldn't just be allowed to sit there scratching his head looking clueless.

2011 Fares
 

On 21 Oct, 19:52, Mizter T wrote:

One last thing - yes, Oyster Ticket Stops are going to stop selling
printed Day Travelcards - so that's a phasing out of sorts. Can't say
I'm really at all surprised by that - indeed, I'm sure it's been part
of the game plan, what with the withdrawal from newsagents of the
machines that printed tickets and had Oyster pads retrofitted in
favour of the much simpler, all electronic/ no moving parts Oyster
'Pearl' devices - I didn't imagine that newsagents going back to the
old ways of having a stock of pre-printed Travelcards kept in an ice-
cream box under the counter, and stamping the date on them, would last
all that long! So yes, those who specifically want a Day Travelcard
over using Oyster will now need to get to a station in order to buy
one.


That makes me less than gruntled. I live a long way from a station, so
that means I'll have to pay to take a bus to get there. Unless I can
have the cost of that journey deducted from the price of the
travelcard (cue hollow laughter), I lose out by quite a lot. The
usefulness of the paper travelcard is that I can then buy a national
rail ticket to somewhere outside the applicable travelcard zones from
the boundary of said zones, giving me great flexibility in the routing
of the journey.

2011 Fares
 

"martin" wrote in message
...

On Oct 22, 12:07 pm, "tim...." wrote:
"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

...

On Thu, 21 Oct 2010 18:14:38 +0100, "tim...."
wrote:

The other interesting points I spotted is the stated ambition to try to
harmonise TfL and TOC PAYG tariffs and also the moves on child and
student discount levels with the TOCs. Railcard reductions on PAYG
rates (not just caps) will apply to the LUL and DLR PAYG off peak rates
from January 2011 (section 1.17 of the MD document).

Presumably not Network card discounts? When are they going to make that
available?

they didn't seem keen on the idea back in February:
http://mqt.london.gov.uk/mqt/public/...on.do?id=30225

They'd just have to make the Network Card discount available on weekends
only, because of the minimum £13.00 fare...

Paul S

2011 Fares
 

In article ,
Mizter T wrote:
Gold Card-discounted Oyster PAYG capping (i.e. the GC equivalent to
having a Railcard discount loaded on one's Oyster card) now exists -
it went live in January I think?

Are discounted caps available for Network Railcards?

-roy

2011 Fares
 

"Roy Badami" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Mizter T wrote:
Gold Card-discounted Oyster PAYG capping (i.e. the GC equivalent to
having a Railcard discount loaded on one's Oyster card) now exists -
it went live in January I think?

Are discounted caps available for Network Railcards?

No - and as I suggested earlier in the thread the main reason is probably
that they are only relevant on weekends, as a £13 minimum fare applies on
weekdays.

Paul S

2011 Fares
 

"Paul Scott" wrote in message
...


"Roy Badami" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Mizter T wrote:
Gold Card-discounted Oyster PAYG capping (i.e. the GC equivalent to
having a Railcard discount loaded on one's Oyster card) now exists -
it went live in January I think?

Are discounted caps available for Network Railcards?

No - and as I suggested earlier in the thread the main reason is probably
that they are only relevant on weekends, as a £13 minimum fare applies on
weekdays.

That just sounds like a "can't be bothered" excuse. How hard is it to
program so that it only applies sat/su.

tim

2011 Fares
 

On Oct 25, 10:54*pm, "tim...." wrote:

"Paul Scott" wrote:

"Roy Badami" wrote:

Mizter T wrote:
Gold Card-discounted Oyster PAYG capping (i.e. the GC equivalent to
having a Railcard discount loaded on one's Oyster card) now exists -
it went live in January I think?

Are discounted caps available for Network Railcards?

No - and as I suggested earlier in the thread the main reason is probably
that they are only relevant on weekends, as a £13 minimum fare applies on
weekdays.

That just sounds like a "can't be bothered" excuse. *How hard is it to
program so that it only applies sat/su.

It'd only happen if the TOCs want it to happen - the Network Railcard
is not 'TfL's baby', so to speak.