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I have travelled on metro systems all over the world and none, absolutely none, is anywhere near as utterly hopeless as London Transport.
It is almost beyond belief that any transport system can be run so badly. And there is no shame. They just don't care. Customers are treated with contempt. Signals are forever failing. Why? They don't fail every day on other systems. If signals failed at Heathrow airport people would die and the airport would close. London Transport staff are overpaid (£40k to drive a train for 4 and a half days a week!) and no one has any interest in providing a proper service or looking after the customers who pay them. What other organisation in the world performs so badly that they need to announce incessantly over their public address systems every time they are working as they should do? I think most passengers would put up with a few months without LT if it meant that they could all be sacked and drivers replaced with automatic driverless trains which work perfectly well on the DLR. We should not put up with it. LT is expensive, inefficient incompetently run and a disgrace. It is a safe bet that they are already planning strikes during the Olympics because they know they can and they know we will all pay up. |
Signal Failure
On Wed, 23 Feb 2011 15:19:27 +0000
john amber wrote: I have travelled on metro systems all over the world and none, absolutely none, is anywhere near as utterly hopeless as London Transport. And as expensive. London Transport staff are overpaid (£40k to drive a train for 4 and a half days a week!) and no one has any interest in providing a proper Ah , but don't forget , it might just be pushing a lever like a trained chimp 99.99% of the time but that high salary is for that 0.01 % of the time where they'll have to step up to the breach in an emergency! We won't mention the fire brigade, ambulance drivers, police, nurses etc who have to deal with emergencies every ****ing day and get paid half that amount. run and a disgrace. It is a safe bet that they are already planning strikes during the Olympics because they know they can and they know we will all pay up. Virtually guaranteed I'd have thought. If the government doesn't pass a law banning transport strikes during the Olympics then they're asking for trouble. B2003 |
Signal Failure
On Feb 24, 2:19*am, john amber
wrote: I have travelled on metro systems all over the world and none, absolutely none, is anywhere near as utterly hopeless as London Transport. First of all, there is no such thing as London Transport, unless you're somehow managing to post through a time-warp from before the year 2000. Assuming you mean London Underground, have you *commuted to work* on metro systems all over the world? Until the answer's "yes", you can't compare them. IMX Paris, Sydney and Melbourne are as bad as London Underground for delays and general failures. Hong Kong is better. It is almost beyond belief that any transport system can be run so badly. And there is no shame. They just don't care. Customers are treated with contempt. Signals are forever failing. Why? They don't fail every day on other systems. Yes they do. I'd stake my life that *every* major commuter rail network has at least one signal failure every day (which, as discussed on other current threads, encompasses *all aspects of the signalling system*, not just red and green lights). If signals failed at Heathrow airport people would die and the airport would close. Not true. Again, signals *do* fail at LHR regularly, in the sense that ATC computers go down, aeroplanes' transponders break, and so on. We have very strict rules in place to minimise the chances that these failures will compromise passenger safety - precisely as we do on railways. London Transport staff are overpaid ( 40k to drive a train for 4 and a half days a week!) Why not apply, if you think it's such an awesome and easy job? and no one has any interest in providing a proper service or looking after the customers who pay them. What other organisation in the world performs so badly that they need to announce incessantly over their public address systems every time they are working as they should do? Most public transport systems - or at least, those which actually conduct research into what upsets and reassures passengers. LU's communication policy is based on serious research into passenger and group behaviour. I think most passengers would put up with a few months without LT if it meant that they could all be sacked and drivers replaced with automatic driverless trains which work perfectly well on the DLR. Close down *all of LU* for six months? How, precisely, do you anticipate people will get to work (clue: the roads, mainline railways and DLR are also all overloaded beyond capacity)? Or are you assuming that businesses in London will close down for six months? Even if that part of your scheme were viable: 1) the DLR was a purpose-built system designed with automatic train operation from the start. LU isn't. It would be possible in theory to convert the Central and Victoria lines as you suggest - for all the other lines, it would require an enormous, multi-billion-pound resignalling effort. Now, this is going to happen over the next 25 years - but not over the next six months. 2) DLR trains all have trained (sorry) operators on board. They get paid GBP33k a year. So your scheme saves a grant total of GBP7k per train operator. Woo! We should not put up with it. LT is expensive, inefficient incompetently run and a disgrace. It is a safe bet that they are already planning strikes during the Olympics because they know they can and they know we will all pay up. I'm fairly sure London Underground isn't planning strikes during the Olympics, except possibly planning on how to mitigate the effects of any such strikes. It is possible that some of LU's employees have a different attitude. -- John Band john at johnband dot org www.johnband.org |
Please see my response below:
Quote:
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On Feb 24, 6:32*pm, john amber wrote: Please see my response below: john b;117801 Wrote: On Feb 24, 2:19*am, john amber wrote:- We should not put up with it. LT is expensive, inefficient incompetently run and a disgrace. It is a safe bet that they are already planning strikes during the Olympics because they know they can and they know we will all pay up.- I'm fairly sure London Underground isn't planning strikes during the Olympics, except possibly planning on how to mitigate the effects of any such strikes. It is possible that some of LU's employees have a different attitude. Some, possibly. Shame you can't quote properly John Amber - your Mr Angry rant being all mixed up with the text you were attempting to respond to. Shame you also can't seem to comprehend the difference between London Underground the employer, and their employees. One basic difference is that employers generally don't have the habit of going on strike. And if you've never seen a DLR train with a staff member on board then I wonder just how often you have travelled on the DLR - every single train has a 'Passenger Service Agent' (aka train captain) on board, their presence isn't always apparent if you're not on the look out but you won't go very far without one given that they close the doors (without which the train won't move). |
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In message
, Mizter T writes I wonder just how often you have travelled on the DLR - every single train has a 'Passenger Service Agent' (aka train captain) on board, their presence isn't always apparent if you're not on the look out but you won't go very far without one given that they close the doors (without which the train won't move). Although there was the famous case in 2007 when a train left West India Quay without its PSA, who I think eventually caught up with it at Westferry (presumably somewhat out of breath!) -- Paul Terry |
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In message , john amber
writes I think most passengers would put up with a few months without LT if it meant that they could all be sacked and drivers replaced with automatic driverless trains which work perfectly well on the DLR. I remember when the Victoria line opened and the proles were told they'd be driverless, most people said they wouldn't travel on the line, hence the use of a door closer/driver, same as the DLR. Maybe in the light of experience, people should be asked again if they would be prepared to use driverless trains? -- Clive |
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"Clive" wrote in message
In message , john amber writes I think most passengers would put up with a few months without LT if it meant that they could all be sacked and drivers replaced with automatic driverless trains which work perfectly well on the DLR. I remember when the Victoria line opened and the proles were told they'd be driverless, most people said they wouldn't travel on the line, hence the use of a door closer/driver, same as the DLR. Maybe in the light of experience, people should be asked again if they would be prepared to use driverless trains? I also remember when the Tube went over to OPO (or was it called OMO back then?), initially only on trains with ATO, but later on all lines. At each stage, the unions wailed about how this would compromise safety, people would die, etc, etc, but it seems to have been pretty painless. Now the same union objections are happening again with ticket offices, even though stations won't be left unmanned (unlike many minor NR stations). |
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"Clive" wrote in message ... In message , john amber writes I think most passengers would put up with a few months without LT if it meant that they could all be sacked and drivers replaced with automatic driverless trains which work perfectly well on the DLR. I remember when the Victoria line opened and the proles were told they'd be driverless, most people said they wouldn't travel on the line, hence the use of a door closer/driver, same as the DLR. Maybe in the light of experience, people should be asked again if they would be prepared to use driverless trains? Perhaps they better not visit: Copenhagen Nuremberg Other places that I can't be bothered to look up. then tim |
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