BBC discovers that Oyster users can be overcharged for incomplete journeys
 

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12579263
and
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mindthega...yter_blog.html

I must admit I wasn't aware of the autocomplete feature of Oyster.

BBC discovers that Oyster users can be overcharged for incomplete journeys
 

In message , at 11:01:41 on
Sat, 26 Feb 2011, Recliner remarked:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12579263
and
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mindthega...yter_blog.html

I must admit I wasn't aware of the autocomplete feature of Oyster.

I've never heard of it before.

When there is a football match for example they open the
barriers and implement something called "autocomplete".

That means the system in effect touches you out of the system
automatically without you having to do it. Sensors pick up cards
going through the barriers.

The problem is that to make sure your journey is completed by
the system you have to touch in at the same station within three
days. Or you get a maximum fare.

Speculating, they seem to be able to *read* the cards as you walk past
the barriers (feet away from the sensors perhaps) but can't *write* the
appropriate "touch-out refund" to the card. So save it up on that
specific gateline only, for three days, in case you happen to be able to
pick it up.

Of course, they could instead put this into their "you have a refund to
pick up" system. Or is this snake oil? (especially the 'reading at a
distance' part?)
--
Roland Perry

BBC discovers that Oyster users can be overcharged for incomplete journeys
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message

In message , at 11:01:41 on
Sat, 26 Feb 2011, Recliner remarked:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12579263
and
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mindthega...yter_blog.html

I must admit I wasn't aware of the autocomplete feature of Oyster.

I've never heard of it before.

When there is a football match for example they open the
barriers and implement something called "autocomplete".

That means the system in effect touches you out of the system
automatically without you having to do it. Sensors pick up
cards going through the barriers.

The problem is that to make sure your journey is completed by
the system you have to touch in at the same station within
three days. Or you get a maximum fare.

Speculating, they seem to be able to *read* the cards as you walk past
the barriers (feet away from the sensors perhaps) but can't *write*
the appropriate "touch-out refund" to the card. So save it up on that
specific gateline only, for three days, in case you happen to be able
to pick it up.

Of course, they could instead put this into their "you have a refund
to pick up" system. Or is this snake oil? (especially the 'reading at
a distance' part?)

I read it to mean that if it picked up *any* Oyster cards passing within
reading range, then anyone with an incomplete return journey possibly
involving that station (ie, because they exited from it earlier in the
day, but didn't re-enter or vice versa) gets put into this category,
even though their Oyster cards weren't picked up. Which is fine and
dandy for regular commuters through that station, but if it's an
"event", I wouldn't have thought it likely that the footie fan or
concert goer would pass through that station again within three days.

BBC discovers that Oyster users can be overcharged for incomplete journeys
 

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message

On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 12:24:13 -0000, "Recliner"
wrote:

Which is fine and
dandy for regular commuters through that station, but if it's an
"event", I wouldn't have thought it likely that the footie fan or
concert goer would pass through that station again within three days.

... except, of course, when they go home from the footie or event.

As I read it, this is likely to happen on the way home, but I might have
misunderstood. I suppose it makes sense if it's on the way in, as you
suggest.

BBC discovers that Oyster users can be overcharged for incomplete journeys
 

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12579263
and
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mindthega...yter_blog.html

I must admit I wasn't aware of the autocomplete feature of Oyster.

Given the "open" nature of the barrier on the W&C it's hardly a surprise
that lots of errors occur at Waterloo, IMHO

tim

BBC discovers that Oyster users can be overcharged for incomplete journeys
 

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 11:01:41 on
Sat, 26 Feb 2011, Recliner remarked:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12579263
and
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/mindthega...yter_blog.html

I must admit I wasn't aware of the autocomplete feature of Oyster.

I've never heard of it before.

When there is a football match for example they open the
barriers and implement something called "autocomplete".

That means the system in effect touches you out of the system
automatically without you having to do it. Sensors pick up cards
going through the barriers.

The problem is that to make sure your journey is completed by
the system you have to touch in at the same station within three
days. Or you get a maximum fare.

Speculating, they seem to be able to *read* the cards as you walk past
the barriers (feet away from the sensors perhaps) but can't *write* the
appropriate "touch-out refund" to the card. So save it up on that
specific gateline only, for three days, in case you happen to be able to
pick it up.

Of course, they could instead put this into their "you have a refund to
pick up" system. Or is this snake oil? (especially the 'reading at a
distance' part?)

They can't be "read" at a distance as they need the local RF loop to power
them.

They can be "overheard" at a distance if another device is already reading
them, but this isn't the case here.

(we need some real technical words for those two things. I have no idea if
there are some already in common usage!)


tim

BBC discovers that Oyster users can be overcharged for incomplete journeys
 

In message , at 12:59:12 on Sat, 26 Feb
2011, tim.... remarked:
I must admit I wasn't aware of the autocomplete feature of Oyster.

I've never heard of it before.

When there is a football match for example they open the
barriers and implement something called "autocomplete".

That means the system in effect touches you out of the system
automatically without you having to do it. Sensors pick up cards
going through the barriers.

The problem is that to make sure your journey is completed by
the system you have to touch in at the same station within three
days. Or you get a maximum fare.

Speculating, they seem to be able to *read* the cards as you walk past
the barriers (feet away from the sensors perhaps) but can't *write* the
appropriate "touch-out refund" to the card. So save it up on that
specific gateline only, for three days, in case you happen to be able to
pick it up.

Of course, they could instead put this into their "you have a refund to
pick up" system. Or is this snake oil? (especially the 'reading at a
distance' part?)

They can't be "read" at a distance as they need the local RF loop to power
them.

They can be "overheard" at a distance if another device is already reading
them, but this isn't the case here.

(we need some real technical words for those two things. I have no idea if
there are some already in common usage!)

So what *is* the action they refer to as "picking up cards going through
the barrier"?
--
Roland Perry

BBC discovers that Oyster users can be overcharged forincomplete journeys
 

Which is fine and
dandy for regular commuters through that station, but if it's an
"event", I wouldn't have thought it likely that the footie fan or
concert goer would pass through that station again within three days.

... except, of course, when they go home from the footie or event.

As I read it, this is likely to happen on the way home, but I might have
misunderstood. I suppose it makes sense if it's on the way in, as you
suggest.

I would expect that the key time for this would be after a football match
etc - turnstiles open and people in in football grounds for up to an hour
before the game - the ground is the empty within minutes. Same for a gig
or something similar. Witness queuing after games at Upton Park station
or Highbury and Islington or Fulham Broadway or shudder Wembley Park
after games - getting to the ground is substantially easier, and usually
nothing more than "a little busy".

BBC discovers that Oyster users can be overcharged for incomplete journeys
 

"Martin Petrov" wrote in message

Which is fine and
dandy for regular commuters through that station, but if it's an
"event", I wouldn't have thought it likely that the footie fan or
concert goer would pass through that station again within three
days.

... except, of course, when they go home from the footie or event.

As I read it, this is likely to happen on the way home, but I might
have misunderstood. I suppose it makes sense if it's on the way in,
as you suggest.

I would expect that the key time for this would be after a football
match etc - turnstiles open and people in in football grounds for up
to an hour before the game - the ground is the empty within minutes.
Same for a gig or something similar. Witness queuing after games at
Upton Park station or Highbury and Islington or Fulham Broadway or
shudder Wembley Park after games - getting to the ground is
substantially easier, and usually nothing more than "a little busy".

That was my thought, which is why I wonder how this could work if
visitors are expected to go through the event gate line again within
three days. Maybe this is why the problem[1] is occurring.

[1] problem for customers of course; TfL makes a nice profit.

BBC discovers that Oyster users can be overcharged for incomplete journeys
 

On Feb 26, 12:33*pm, Paul Corfield wrote:

On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 12:24:13 -0000, "Recliner"

wrote:
Which is fine and
dandy for regular commuters through that station, but if it's an
"event", I wouldn't have thought it likely that the footie fan or
concert goer would pass through that station again within three days.

... except, of course, when they go home from the footie or event.

Quite. Hasn't this also been used at Sloane Square during the Flower
Show in the past?

I had a journey described as being 'auto-completed' when I was making
an incredibly last minute (pre-bongs) dash from one New Year's Eve
party to another a few years ago - when I got to my destination Tube
station (10/15 mins to midnight) the gates were all open and I think
the Oyster card readers were also actually off (bear in mind NYE free
travel kicks in at 2345), but when I checked later (next day) it was
shown as 'auto-completed'.