"Transport for London cuts £7.6bn from budget"
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12891117

Excerpt:
---quote---
London's mayor is to cut £7.6bn from the budget of Transport for London
(TfL) over the next seven years.

TfL is already in the middle of a £5bn "savings programme" but the RMT union
said the new cuts target "defies belief" and will lead to job losses.

The extra £2bn cuts will mean passengers could see fares rise by 2% above
the inflation rate - an annual rise of 7% - for the next four years.
[...continues...]
---/quote---


A slightly muddled story I feel, though perhaps that's because I've rather
lost the thread on the overall budget cuts situation given the various
different announcements over the past few years. (But £2bn on top of £5bn
doesn't come to £7.6bn!)

I just hope that someone - in City Hall or in the media - holds Boris Johnson to account and demands exact details of what this will mean in practice and how much money will be saved.

I was chatting this morning with someone who works for London Underground and he told me that only Crossrail and HS2 will be supported with public money in the foreseeable future. As I am deeply sceptical about both projects, this depressed me.

On the other hand, if Boris Johnson denies TfL money for their road sabotage schemes - e.g. Tottenham High Road - then I will jump for joy.

"Transport for London cuts £7.6bn from budget"
 

"Robin9" wrote in message
...

I was chatting this morning with someone who works for London
Underground and he told me that only Crossail and HS2 will be supported
with public money in the foreseeable future.

Not according to the 143 pages of the TfL business plan, (which I won't
attempt to summarise).

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...and-Budget.pdf

Paul S

I'm well aware that Boris Johnson is nominal head of TfL. Indeed I once heard him declare on Vanessa Feltz's radio programme "I am TfL." I am also aware that frequently in sizable organisations some staff members have their own agenda while pretending to be be loyal and conscientious. This doesn't happen only in politics and public administration. I've come across it several times within commercial organisations.

It is indisputable that some of TfL's activities concerning London's roads are at variance with some of Boris Johnson's declared policies. For example, in his introduction to the new TfL business plan Boris Johnson writes about ripping out many of London's (innumerable) unnecessary traffic lights. Off-hand I can't think of any location where traffic lights have been removed but I know of several where TfL have either recently installed or plan to install some. Boris Johnson has often said he wants to reduce air pollution in London but the main reason air quality in London has deteriorated so much in the past ten years is that TfL have taken measures all over London to prevent traffic from moving. (When motor vehicles are held at red traffic signals or behind a bus where the pavement has been extended to prevent cars from passing the stationary bus, the motorists do not switch their engines off)

Does Boris Johnson realise that some of TfL's activities contradict his declared policies? I don't know. We have here a classical fools or knaves situation. Either Boris Johnson is as big a liar as Ken Livingston and does not at all intend to carry out his declared policies of smoothing London's traffic flow and reducing air pollution or he is an utter fool who simply does not know what is going on.

Both interpretations are feasible because both accord with known facts. We know that since becoming Mayor Boris Johnson has done nothing to improve road conditions but has indulged his pro-cycling prejudice. On the other hand we know that he does not pay attention to detail. On more than one occasion Nick Ferrari, when interviewing him, has been able to demonstrate that Boris Johnson has not familiarised himself with the precise details of some policy Johnson has announced. To twist a man like that round their fingers, all TfL has to do is tell Boris Johnson the same pack of lies they tell everyone else. I'm quite sure they have told him that their plans for Tottenham High Road will smooth the flow of traffic, improve conditions for pedestrians, increase safety all round and reduce air pollution. TfL have made those same fraudulent boasts about all their road schemes which have created massive traffic congestion and air pollution and have turned London into a backward city.

What is clear to anyone with any common sense is that returning the Seven Sisters section of Tottenham High Road to two-way traffic will not work. It did not work 40 years ago when traffic levels were much lighter than now and it will not work today when TfL have confiscated half the road space for bus lanes and have installed additional traffic lights to prevent traffic from moving.

"Transport for London cuts £7.6bn from budget"
 

Robin9 wrote:
Does Boris Johnson realise that some of TfL's activities contradict his
declared policies? I don't know. We have here a classical fools or
knaves situation. Either Boris Johnson is as big a liar as Ken
Livingston and does not at all intend to carry out his declared policies
of smoothing London's traffic flow and reducing air pollution or he is
an utter fool who simply does not know what is going on.


A bit of both. His pre-election promises mean absolutely nothing to
him, which is why so many have been reversed or simply forgotten. He
simply doesn't have the grasp of detail that a Mayor needs in order to
"know what is going on".

Overall, he is hopeless. I'm no Livingstone fan but Ken was a far
better and more effective Mayor than Boris ever could be.

I preferred Steven Norris to Boris as a candidate, but after he was
defeated twice it was always apparent that Boris had a better chance
of beating Ken.

"Transport for London cuts £7.6bn from budget"
 

On 2011\04\03 11:08, Robin9 wrote:

I'm well aware that Boris Johnson is nominal head of TfL. Indeed I once
heard him declare on Vanessa Feltz's radio programme "I am TfL." I am
also aware that frequently in sizable organisations some staff members
have their own agenda while pretending to be be loyal and conscientious.
This doesn't happen only in politics and public administration. I've
come across it several times within commercial organisations.

It is indisputable that some of TfL's activities concerning London's
roads are at variance with some of Boris Johnson's declared policies.
For example, in his introduction to the new TfL business plan Boris
Johnson writes about ripping out many of London's (innumerable)
unnecessary traffic lights. Off-hand I can't think of any location where
traffic lights have been removed

Fortune Green Road / Mill Lane, lights removed about a fortnight ago.
At Summers Lane / A1000, an avoiding slip was put in about a year ago
allowing some traffic to bypass the lights.

"Transport for London cuts £7.6bn from
 

On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 11:51:06 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
Fortune Green Road / Mill Lane, lights removed about a fortnight ago.
At Summers Lane / A1000, an avoiding slip was put in about a year ago
allowing some traffic to bypass the lights.

Pity they don't remove the lights at the Brent Street/Spirehall Lane
junction in golders green. Until about 5 years ago it used to be a mini
roundabout which worked perfectly. Since they put the bloody lights in
you can guarantee a queue at virtually any time of the day and in the
rush hour all the way back to the A406 sometimes causing blocking of that
due to vehicles getting stuck in the junction because the back of the
queue isn't moving as much as they thought it would. The people who made the
decision to install them were either complete retards or they were getting
backhanders from vested interests.

B2003

"Transport for London cuts £7.6bn from
 

On 2011\04\04 12:32, d wrote:

Pity they don't remove the lights at the Brent Street/Spirehall Lane
junction in golders green. Until about 5 years ago it used to be a mini
roundabout which worked perfectly. Since they put the bloody lights in
you can guarantee a queue at virtually any time of the day and in the
rush hour all the way back to the A406 sometimes causing blocking of that
due to vehicles getting stuck in the junction because the back of the
queue isn't moving as much as they thought it would. The people who made the
decision to install them were either complete retards or they were getting
backhanders from vested interests.

I don't see it as an either/or thing.

I would have liked Steve Norris as Mayor too. Judging by interviews he gave, he had a good idea of what was wrong at City Hall and he understood that the essential pre-condition to reduce congestion in London was to keep traffic moving.

Norris's problems in being accepted by Londoners was that he was associated with both Margaret Thatcher's government and with Jarvis and that his seemingly energetic love life did not win him widespread admiration.

Ah yes! Thank you. I was in Fortune Green Road recently and I walked up there because I wanted to use the W. C. - which has been closed! I did notice that the lights were no longer there but the penny didn't drop because it was so long since I had been there and I remembered how it was before they installed those completely unnecessary lights.

I'll have a look at the Summers Lane junction. I'm pleased progress has been made. The London Borough Of Barnet was one of TfL's most determined opponents before Boris arrived. I hope they have as thorough a clear out of unnecessary lights as they did of speed humps and expanded pavements. Brian Coleman is of course a colleague of Boris Johnson

Sadly, appallingly, inexcusably, what you describe has been done in numerous other locations all over London.

"Transport for London cuts £7.6bn from budget"
 

"Robin9" wrote in message

'Bruce[_2_ Wrote:
;119186'] I preferred Steven Norris to Boris as a candidate, but
after he was defeated twice it was always apparent that Boris had a
better chance of beating Ken.
I would have liked Steve Norris as Mayor too. Judging by interviews he
gave, he had a good idea of what was wrong at City Hall and he
understood that the essential pre-condition to reduce congestion in
London was to keep traffic moving.

Norris's problems in being accepted by Londoners was that he was
associated with both Margaret Thatcher's government and with Jarvis
and that his seemingly energetic love life did not win him widespread
admiration.

Boris, of course, has at least as energetic love life as "Shagger"
Norris...

A backward city is one where the systems are inefficent and produce bad results and where the powers-that-be have primitive attitudes. TfL's sabotaging of London's roads has made London a backward city in several ways:

1) It is now more difficult and stressful to travel by road in London than in other European capitals. Try travelling by road in Berlin or Rome and you will see how backward London is.

2) The London Ambulance Service has declared that each year many lives are lost because the ambulances cannot make journeys quickly owing to road and traffic conditions. I expect that from some Third World shanty town, not from a European capital city.

3) Whereas London's air quality improved continually from the 1950's Clean Air Act until the late 1990s, since the creation of TfL air quality in London has steadily deteriorated to such an extent that both the Meteorological Office and the European Commission have in recent years denounced London's air quality as dangerous and unacceptable. During this same period, deaths in London caused by respiratory problems have increased commeasurately. A city that allows air quality to deteriorate to that extent is a backward city and a city whose ruling body is so pig-headed and uncaring that they continue to create the conditions which produce these avoidable deaths is also a backward city.

If you want an example of TfL changing the road layout so that congestion and air pollution increase massively, I suggest you travel from The Royal London Hospital to Fenchurch Street Station at about 10-o-clock any weekday. Many years ago a gyratory system incorporating Whitechapel High Street, Braham Street and Mansell Street was introduced at what was then called Gardner's Corner in the Aldgate area. This gyratory system worked extremely well with traffic flowing smoothly because there were no conflicting traffic movements. There were hardly any traffic lights. When the Department Of Transport took over responsibility for London's main roads, they made this system part of their Red Route complex. When TfL took over, they immediately installed unnecessary traffic lights. What they have now done - during Boris Johnson's time in office - is to shut down the gyratory system, reintroduce two-way traffic, impose numerous conflicting flows of traffic and install traffic lights every few yards. The result is a disaster. Don't take my word for it. Go and sample it for yourself.

Presume is the correct word but you presume incorrectly. Nothing I have posted in this thread or any other should lead you to imagine that I want to demolish buildings and/or build motorways in London. On the contrary, my complaint about TfL is that they do not leave things alone. I don't want TfL to do anything because anything they do will make matters worse. As a general proposition I do not believe it necessary to demolish buildings to improve London's road network. By far the quickest, cheapest and least destructive way of making the roads better is to undo everything TfL has done and put the roads back to how they were ten years ago.

You don't seem to know the Tottenham Gyratory System as well as you think. Quite apart from the main traffic lights by Tesco, there are two sets of pedestrian lights in Broad Lane so crossing the road safely is not a problem. Your suggestion that I want to condemn people in the area to death by air pollution indicates you haven't been paying attention. I have reiterated both in this thread and others that I want to reduce air pollution and that I am opposed to TfL's plans because they increase air pollution. Your allegation would be more appropiate if directed at TfL.

Why don't I believe the new system will work? Please see my earlier post. Incidentally you don't have to take my word for it. Right now, this week, because of the road works the Seven Sisters section of Tottenham High Road is effectively as it was 40 years ago: two lanes of traffic going north. So, go off peak, at 11-o clock on Tuesday morning, 2-o-clock Thursday afternoon, 3-o-clock Sunday afternoon and see for yourself. Go to South Tottenham Station and see the queue of traffic tailing back from the newly created bottleneck. Go up Seven Sisters Road to the junction with Saint Ann's Road and look at all the vehicles sitting there with their engines running. And then ask yourself what will it be like during the peak periods? What will it be like when TfL have reduced the running lanes from two to one to make way for a bus lane?

Your assumptions about my travelling patterns are mistaken. It's certainly true that Monday to Friday I drive a lot but it is also true that at weekends and in summer evenings I use public transport. In fact if you check my posts in other threads you find evidence of my use of public transport.

"Transport for London cuts £7.6bn from budget"
 

Robin9 wrote:
'Bruce wrote:
I preferred Steven Norris to Boris as a candidate, but after
he was defeated twice it was always apparent that Boris had a better
chance of beating Ken.

I would have liked Steve Norris as Mayor too. Judging by interviews he
gave, he had a good idea of what was wrong at City Hall and he
understood that the essential pre-condition to reduce congestion in
London was to keep traffic moving.

Norris's problems in being accepted by Londoners was that he was
associated with both Margaret Thatcher's government


Norris did not hold Ministerial office in any Thatcher administration.
He only achieved the status of Minister when John Major appointed him
to the post of Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for Transport
and Minister for Transport in London in 1992. He kept that


and with Jarvis


Norris was not appointed to the board of Jarvis until 2002, two years
after his first bid to be elected as Mayor.


and that his seemingly energetic love life did not win him widespread
admiration.


Perhaps that comment could also be applied to Boris? It didn't
prevent Boris from being elected, though. ;-)

"Transport for London cuts £7.6bn from "
 

On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:32:53 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 11:51:06 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
Fortune Green Road / Mill Lane, lights removed about a fortnight ago.
At Summers Lane / A1000, an avoiding slip was put in about a year ago
allowing some traffic to bypass the lights.

Pity they don't remove the lights at the Brent Street/Spirehall Lane
junction in golders green. Until about 5 years ago it used to be a mini
roundabout which worked perfectly.

How did pedestrians get across?

Colin McKenzie


--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at the
population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.

"Transport for London cuts £7
 

On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 21:07:30 +0100
"Colin McKenzie" wrote:
On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 12:32:53 +0100, wrote:

On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 11:51:06 +0100
Basil Jet wrote:
Fortune Green Road / Mill Lane, lights removed about a fortnight ago.
At Summers Lane / A1000, an avoiding slip was put in about a year ago
allowing some traffic to bypass the lights.

Pity they don't remove the lights at the Brent Street/Spirehall Lane
junction in golders green. Until about 5 years ago it used to be a mini
roundabout which worked perfectly.

How did pedestrians get across?

Quite easily.

B2003