Ticket gates at Finsbury Park
 

Ticket gates are being installed on platforms 1 and 2 and 5 and 6.
There is a FFC poster about the supposed link between crime and
ticketless travel, presumably FCC think a large number of their
customers are criminals although obviously said criminals don't use
platforms 3 and 4 at Finsbury Park. Why don't FCC just tell the truth
and say they are trying to maximise their revenue and honest
passengers will be delayed as a result, and also add that it isn't
cost effective to install ticket gates on platforms 3 and 4?

Ticket gates at Finsbury Park
 

"George" wrote:
Ticket gates are being installed on platforms 1 and 2 and 5 and 6.
There is a FFC poster about the supposed link between crime and
ticketless travel, presumably FCC think a large number of their
customers are criminals although obviously said criminals don't use
platforms 3 and 4 at Finsbury Park. Why don't FCC just tell the truth
and say they are trying to maximise their revenue and honest
passengers will be delayed as a result, and also add that it isn't
cost effective to install ticket gates on platforms 3 and 4?

Of course it's about revenue - Finsbury Park is known as somewhere where
there are no barriers, that combined with the Tube interchange makes it
attractive to those wishing to evade a fare.

How are they doing this though - are the gates going in at platform level at
the top of the stairs? Hmm.

Ticket gates at Finsbury Park
 

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:46:02 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
Of course it's about revenue - Finsbury Park is known as somewhere where
there are no barriers, that combined with the Tube interchange makes it
attractive to those wishing to evade a fare.

They can't have just realised this after 20 years so there must be another
reason. Ah , I know what it is - before (honest) people would have touched
in at their tube station in central london and touched out at their
FCC station after the readers were installed there instead of finsbury. Now of
course they'll have to touch out at finsbury park too. More revenue and the
chance to charge people full penalty fares if they use PAYG. Result!

How are they doing this though - are the gates going in at platform level at
the top of the stairs? Hmm.

Yup.

B2003

Ticket gates at Finsbury Park
 

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 03:07:42 -0700 (PDT), George
wrote:

Ticket gates are being installed on platforms 1 and 2 and 5 and 6.
There is a FFC poster about the supposed link between crime and
ticketless travel, presumably FCC think a large number of their
customers are criminals although obviously said criminals don't use
platforms 3 and 4 at Finsbury Park. Why don't FCC just tell the truth
and say they are trying to maximise their revenue and honest
passengers will be delayed as a result, and also add that it isn't
cost effective to install ticket gates on platforms 3 and 4?

In my experience of travelling on a different First Group franchise,
there certainly appears observationally to be a correlation between
antisocial behaviour an non-possession of a ticket. Why are people
randomly moving from one part of a train to another when the ticket
examiner appears?

Ticket gates at Finsbury Park
 

Scott wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 03:07:42 -0700 (PDT), George
wrote:

Ticket gates are being installed on platforms 1 and 2 and 5 and 6.
There is a FFC poster about the supposed link between crime and
ticketless travel, presumably FCC think a large number of their
customers are criminals although obviously said criminals don't use
platforms 3 and 4 at Finsbury Park. Why don't FCC just tell the truth
and say they are trying to maximise their revenue and honest
passengers will be delayed as a result, and also add that it isn't
cost effective to install ticket gates on platforms 3 and 4?

In my experience of travelling on a different First Group franchise,
there certainly appears observationally to be a correlation between
antisocial behaviour an non-possession of a ticket. Why are people
randomly moving from one part of a train to another when the ticket
examiner appears?


Nothing random about it, surely?

Ticket gates at Finsbury Park
 

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 21:02:00 +0100, Bruce
wrote:

Scott wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 03:07:42 -0700 (PDT), George
wrote:

Ticket gates are being installed on platforms 1 and 2 and 5 and 6.
There is a FFC poster about the supposed link between crime and
ticketless travel, presumably FCC think a large number of their
customers are criminals although obviously said criminals don't use
platforms 3 and 4 at Finsbury Park. Why don't FCC just tell the truth
and say they are trying to maximise their revenue and honest
passengers will be delayed as a result, and also add that it isn't
cost effective to install ticket gates on platforms 3 and 4?

In my experience of travelling on a different First Group franchise,
there certainly appears observationally to be a correlation between
antisocial behaviour an non-possession of a ticket. Why are people
randomly moving from one part of a train to another when the ticket
examiner appears?


Nothing random about it, surely?

Yes, I realised that as I pressed the send key :-) I meant to say
'apparently random'.

Ticket gates at Finsbury Park
 

In article ,
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 12:57:35 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:46:02 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
Of course it's about revenue - Finsbury Park is known as somewhere where
there are no barriers, that combined with the Tube interchange makes it
attractive to those wishing to evade a fare.

They can't have just realised this after 20 years so there must be another
reason. Ah , I know what it is - before (honest) people would have touched
in at their tube station in central london and touched out at their
FCC station after the readers were installed there instead of finsbury. Now of
course they'll have to touch out at finsbury park too. More revenue and the
chance to charge people full penalty fares if they use PAYG. Result!

Err they are going to have to be very careful how they deal with this.
By putting gates on the FCC platforms they are making Finsbury Park a
potential OSI within one station given there are validators on the
interchange and entry / exit routes. They are going to have to be very,
very clear about what people do when coming in from the street or making
an interchange. They are potentially recreating the Stratford JLE
interchange gateline concept where people may have to entry or exit
validate twice if going from street to FCC platforms or else having to
validate on entry at, say, Palmers Green, exit at FCC gateline, re-enter
at LU validator at FP and final exit at whatever the person is
travelling to. The alternative is for the FCC gateline to effectively
perform a limited interchange check only but ISTR that the PAYG on NR
Ticket logic is not compatible with interchange gatelines - hence the
removal at Stratford.

Why can't they just leave things as they are? As we've discussed
before it's already set up for interchange (presumably because if you
transfer via Station Place you do actually leave the NR station via
one exit to the street and then re-enter the LUL station via an
adjacent entrance - or vice versa). Hence the problem of not being
able to start a new journey at Finsbury Park (or, I gather, anywhere
else) shortly after completing a journey at Finsbury Park.

Or do gates handle interchange differently from standalone readers?

Roy

Ticket gates at Finsbury Park
 

How are they doing this though - are the gates going in at platform
level at the top of the stairs? Hmm.

Yup.

And they are very intruisive at the top of the stairs - I can see them
causing large amounts of delays getting in and out, especially at a
station that already isn't the best laid out for getting around.

Ticket gates at Finsbury Park
 

Scott wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 21:02:00 +0100, Bruce
wrote:
Scott wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 03:07:42 -0700 (PDT), George
wrote:

Ticket gates are being installed on platforms 1 and 2 and 5 and 6.
There is a FFC poster about the supposed link between crime and
ticketless travel, presumably FCC think a large number of their
customers are criminals although obviously said criminals don't use
platforms 3 and 4 at Finsbury Park. Why don't FCC just tell the truth
and say they are trying to maximise their revenue and honest
passengers will be delayed as a result, and also add that it isn't
cost effective to install ticket gates on platforms 3 and 4?

In my experience of travelling on a different First Group franchise,
there certainly appears observationally to be a correlation between
antisocial behaviour an non-possession of a ticket. Why are people
randomly moving from one part of a train to another when the ticket
examiner appears?


Nothing random about it, surely?

Yes, I realised that as I pressed the send key :-) I meant to say
'apparently random'.


It's funny how people who are trying to look inconspicuous actually
look quite conspicuous. ;-)

Ticket gates at Finsbury Park
 

In message of Tue, 12
Apr 2011 15:24:53 in uk.transport.london, Roy Badami
writes
In article ,
Paul Corfield wrote:
On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 12:57:35 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

On Tue, 12 Apr 2011 13:46:02 +0100
"Mizter T" wrote:
Of course it's about revenue - Finsbury Park is known as somewhere where
there are no barriers, that combined with the Tube interchange makes it
attractive to those wishing to evade a fare.

[snip]


Why can't they just leave things as they are? As we've discussed
before it's already set up for interchange (presumably because if you
transfer via Station Place you do actually leave the NR station via
one exit to the street and then re-enter the LUL station via an
adjacent entrance - or vice versa). Hence the problem of not being
able to start a new journey at Finsbury Park (or, I gather, anywhere
else) shortly after completing a journey at Finsbury Park.

Or do gates handle interchange differently from standalone readers?

Finsbury Park (FPK) is special. If you touch out at FPK and later touch
out at another station, you are charged for one journey. If you touch
out at FPK, a second touch at FPK within 30 minutes is ignored. A second
touch after more than 30 minutes is a touch in.

That is a big improvement in PAYG charging. The later touch out at
another station used to be charged as an unstarted journey. There is one
exception: touch in at station A, out at FPK, and out again at A and you
will be charged for a complete journey between A and FPK and an
unstarted journey at A. I can't remember if this is automatically
adjusted within a few days for registered catds.

I saw the new gates being constructed. There is a passenger holding area
about 3m deep at the top of the stairs. I imagine the gates will be
locked open for Arsenal home matches. I don't know if anything special
is done at Drayton Park for such congregations.

There is also inconsistent signage. Passengers going down the stairs are
instructed to keep left; passengers going up get no such instruction. My
email to FCC on this was passed on to station management. I have not
seen if the signage has been corrected.
--
Walter Briscoe