TfL's bid to control trains has much going for it - Mark Hansford
 

wrote in message
...
On 18/07/2011 06:13, TimB wrote:
On Jul 17, 9:17 pm, wrote:
On Jul 17, 12:40 pm, Roland wrote:



In messageRrWdnTjSrIMBqL7TnZ2dnUVZ8hCdn...@brightvie w.co.uk, at
20:18:53 on Sun, 17 Jul 2011, Arthur Figgis
remarked:

The surprising thing is that Epping - Ongar was electrified (this
didn't happen until 1957).

That would have been about when they decided the Kelvedon Hatch
bunker
was to be re-purposed (and somewhat rebuilt) from air traffic control
to
a regional government HQ. Coincidence?

ISTR there is something in the (very strange) museum there

You may think it's strange, but it captures the Cold War very well.

which more or less claims there was a link between the line surviving
and the bunker.

They do claim that, yes.

But if the bunker was ever needed, wouldn't it have taken ages to get
the 9Fs there from Woodhe4)*(&^%NO CARRIER

If the bunker's needed, people (and lots of supplies) would go there
and
be very unlikely to return. One of the "strange things" they'll tell
you
is that the locks on the doors are mainly to keep those inside at their
posts, rather than preventing the somewhat fried people outside from
breaking in.
--

Clearly, this museum is worth a visit.

Easy to find - there are road signs all over Essex saying 'Secret
Bunker'....


Would one say that Epping-Ongar was a government line, which allowed
civilian use?


If I had the time and resources, I'd look at all the lines closed post-Cold
War and see how many had close links with military sites, no matter how
small the actual usage. Survivors of the Beeching closure plans would be
worth looking at too.
I'd also look at odd stubs where the lines went further to more useful
places. The keeping of Mill Hill East seems odd but there was a barracks
nearby.

TfL's bid to control trains has much going for it - Mark Hansford
 

"Nick P" wrote

I'd also look at odd stubs where the lines went further to more useful
places. The keeping of Mill Hill East seems odd but there was a barracks
nearby.
The 1935 plan wasto extend the Northern Line from Archway to East Finchley,
then for LT to take over, as part of the Northern Line, Finsbury Park to
East Finchley, Highgate to Alexandra Palace, East Finchley to High Barnet
and to Edgware via Mill Hill East, and to extend out beyond Edgware to
Bushey Heath. The Northern Line had reached East Finchley before the
outbreak of WW2 and work on to High Barnet was ell advanced, so was
completed. The Finchley to Edgware service was suspended to facilitate
doubling, but, as you say because of the barracks, a single line was
electrified to Mill Hill East. All the rest of the project was suspended and
eventually abandoned. The line beyond Mill Hill East to Edgware remained
open for freight until 1964 (freight trains coming from Finsbury Park via
Highgate).

Peter

TfL's bid to control trains has much going for it - Mark Hansford
 

In article ,
(Nick P) wrote:

wrote in message
...
On 18/07/2011 06:13, TimB wrote:
On Jul 17, 9:17 pm, wrote:
On Jul 17, 12:40 pm, Roland wrote:

In messageRrWdnTjSrIMBqL7TnZ2dnUVZ8hCdn...@brightvie w.co.uk, at
20:18:53 on Sun, 17 Jul 2011, Arthur Figgis
remarked:

The surprising thing is that Epping - Ongar was electrified (this
didn't happen until 1957).

That would have been about when they decided the Kelvedon Hatch
bunker was to be re-purposed (and somewhat rebuilt) from air
traffic control to a regional government HQ. Coincidence?

ISTR there is something in the (very strange) museum there

You may think it's strange, but it captures the Cold War very well.

which more or less claims there was a link between the line
surviving and the bunker.

They do claim that, yes.

But if the bunker was ever needed, wouldn't it have taken ages to
get the 9Fs there from Woodhe4)*(&^%NO CARRIER

If the bunker's needed, people (and lots of supplies) would go there
and be very unlikely to return. One of the "strange things" they'll
tell you
is that the locks on the doors are mainly to keep those inside at
their posts, rather than preventing the somewhat fried people outside
from breaking in.

Clearly, this museum is worth a visit.

Easy to find - there are road signs all over Essex saying 'Secret
Bunker'....

Would one say that Epping-Ongar was a government line, which
allowed civilian use?

If I had the time and resources, I'd look at all the lines closed
post-Cold War and see how many had close links with military sites,
no matter how small the actual usage. Survivors of the Beeching
closure plans would be worth looking at too.
I'd also look at odd stubs where the lines went further to more
useful places. The keeping of Mill Hill East seems odd but there was
a barracks nearby.

More a case of it opening in the first place because of the barracks. Now
it's there it is still used, isn't it?

The only other closure since the end of the cold war would be Aldwych, isn't
it?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

TfL's bid to control trains has much going for it - Mark Hansford
 

In article ,
(Peter Masson) wrote:

"Nick P" wrote

I'd also look at odd stubs where the lines went further to more
useful places. The keeping of Mill Hill East seems odd but there
was a barracks nearby.
The 1935 plan wasto extend the Northern Line from Archway to East
Finchley, then for LT to take over, as part of the Northern Line,
Finsbury Park to East Finchley, Highgate to Alexandra Palace, East
Finchley to High Barnet and to Edgware via Mill Hill East, and to
extend out beyond Edgware to Bushey Heath. The Northern Line had
reached East Finchley before the outbreak of WW2 and work on to High
Barnet was ell advanced, so was completed. The Finchley to Edgware
service was suspended to facilitate doubling, but, as you say because
of the barracks, a single line was electrified to Mill Hill East. All
the rest of the project was suspended and eventually abandoned. The
line beyond Mill Hill East to Edgware remained open for freight until
1964 (freight trains coming from Finsbury Park via Highgate).

The line to Finsbury Park remained in use for LT stock transfers by battery
loco to and from the Northern City Line until 1970 when the bridge across
the ECML was declared unsafe.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

TfL's bid to control trains has much going for it - Mark Hansford
 

On 2011\07\23 10:30, wrote:

The only other closure since the end of the cold war would be Aldwych, isn't
it?

One could argue whether Shoreditch was a closure or a re-siting.

TfL's bid to control trains has much going for it - Mark Hansford
 

Basil Jet wrote:

The only other closure since the end of the cold war would be Aldwych,
isn't
it?

One could argue whether Shoreditch was a closure or a re-siting.

I think planning law would make that a resiting. There was a rail
replacement bus running between the closure of Shoreditch and the opening of
Shoreditch High Street so officially there was still a service (and given
how limited the Shoreditch tube service was anyway it's hard to argue that
was a substantial loss of service).

TfL's bid to control trains has much going for it - Mark Hansford
 

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:

The only other closure since the end of the cold war would be Aldwych,
isn't it?

One could argue whether Shoreditch was a closure or a re-siting.

I think planning law would make that a resiting. There was a rail
replacement bus running between the closure of Shoreditch and the opening
of Shoreditch High Street so officially there was still a service (and
given how limited the Shoreditch tube service was anyway it's hard to
argue that was a substantial loss of service).

If it's a resiting, it was resited from zone 2 to zone 1 - I know someone
who used to make use of the ELL and old Shoreditch as a cheaper way to
commute to the City from south of the rivva - seemingly a not insubstantial
number of others did the same (of course in the grand scheme of things, in
terms of people commuting into central London every day, this flow would
have amounted to very little).

TfL's bid to control trains has much going for it - Mark Hansford
 

On 23/07/2011 09:43, Nick P wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 18/07/2011 06:13, TimB wrote:
On Jul 17, 9:17 pm, wrote:
On Jul 17, 12:40 pm, Roland wrote:



In messageRrWdnTjSrIMBqL7TnZ2dnUVZ8hCdn...@brightvie w.co.uk, at
20:18:53 on Sun, 17 Jul 2011, Arthur Figgis
remarked:

The surprising thing is that Epping - Ongar was electrified (this
didn't happen until 1957).

That would have been about when they decided the Kelvedon Hatch
bunker
was to be re-purposed (and somewhat rebuilt) from air traffic control
to
a regional government HQ. Coincidence?

ISTR there is something in the (very strange) museum there

You may think it's strange, but it captures the Cold War very well.

which more or less claims there was a link between the line surviving
and the bunker.

They do claim that, yes.

But if the bunker was ever needed, wouldn't it have taken ages to get
the 9Fs there from Woodhe4)*(&^%NO CARRIER

If the bunker's needed, people (and lots of supplies) would go there
and
be very unlikely to return. One of the "strange things" they'll tell
you
is that the locks on the doors are mainly to keep those inside at their
posts, rather than preventing the somewhat fried people outside from
breaking in.
--

Clearly, this museum is worth a visit.

Easy to find - there are road signs all over Essex saying 'Secret
Bunker'....


Would one say that Epping-Ongar was a government line, which allowed
civilian use?


If I had the time and resources, I'd look at all the lines closed post-Cold
War and see how many had close links with military sites, no matter how
small the actual usage.

Was Aldwych station near anything important?


The Beijing Metro has three stations that are for the military, BTW, and
not for civilian use.

TfL's bid to control trains has much going for it - Mark Hansford
 

" wrote:

Was Aldwych station near anything important?


Bvsh Hovse?

(that's how it's spelt on the building)