On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& endangering safety of rail passengers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.


George


I think that plain "theft" is not severe enough. Something like wilful
sabotage deserves a lot more than 7 years to punish offenders and deter
others. More like 20 years minimum would be my suggestion.

(And before anyone suggests you get less for murder, I think murderers
should get 100 years without remission. )

Bevan

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:10:07 +0000, Bevan Price
wrote:

On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& endangering safety of rail passengers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.


George


I think that plain "theft" is not severe enough. Something like wilful
sabotage deserves a lot more than 7 years to punish offenders and deter
others. More like 20 years minimum would be my suggestion.

"Section 33 Offences Against the Person Act 1861 - note the intent to
injure or endanger the safety of persons on railways must be present.
The offence carries, on conviction, [a maximum penalty of?**] life
imprisonment;"
[http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/r...ort_offences/]

(**AFAIAA murder is the only offence for which only a life sentence is
available.)

The same maximum penalty applies in Scotland for the Common Law
offence of culpable and reckless conduct.

(And before anyone suggests you get less for murder, I think murderers
should get 100 years without remission. )

They all get "life" but not necessarily/usually in the form of
lifelong incarceration. The circumstances vary greatly between cases
and locking people up for ever is seldom appropriate.

In article ,
(Charles Ellson) wrote:

On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:10:07 +0000, Bevan Price
wrote:

On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& endangering safety of rail
passengers", rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties
specified by law, such that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not
reduce to a token level of sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also
face similarly severe charges & penalties.

No need for that. Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.

I think that plain "theft" is not severe enough. Something like wilful
sabotage deserves a lot more than 7 years to punish offenders and deter
others. More like 20 years minimum would be my suggestion.

"Section 33 Offences Against the Person Act 1861 - note the intent to
injure or endanger the safety of persons on railways must be present.
The offence carries, on conviction, [a maximum penalty of?**] life
imprisonment;"

[http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/r...port_offences/
]

(**AFAIAA murder is the only offence for which only a life sentence is
available.)

The same maximum penalty applies in Scotland for the Common Law
offence of culpable and reckless conduct.

(And before anyone suggests you get less for murder, I think murderers
should get 100 years without remission. )

They all get "life" but not necessarily/usually in the form of
lifelong incarceration. The circumstances vary greatly between cases
and locking people up for ever is seldom appropriate.

An important difference with life sentences is that a prisoner can be
recalled at any time and is never free from that threat.

The charge of endangering passengers on the railway is greatly under-used
IMHO. People like the lorry-driver who hit the barriers on Foxton level
crossing (on the A10) should undoubtedly be charged. He was well past the "I
didn't see the flashing lights" stage.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On 28/12/2011 20:01, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Wed, 28 Dec 2011 19:10:07 +0000, Bevan Price
wrote:

On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& endangering safety of rail passengers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.


George


I think that plain "theft" is not severe enough. Something like wilful
sabotage deserves a lot more than 7 years to punish offenders and deter
others. More like 20 years minimum would be my suggestion.

"Section 33 Offences Against the Person Act 1861 - note the intent to
injure or endanger the safety of persons on railways must be present.
The offence carries, on conviction, [a maximum penalty of?**] life
imprisonment;"
[http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/r...ort_offences/]

(**AFAIAA murder is the only offence for which only a life sentence is
available.)

The same maximum penalty applies in Scotland for the Common Law
offence of culpable and reckless conduct.

(And before anyone suggests you get less for murder, I think murderers
should get 100 years without remission. )

They all get "life" but not necessarily/usually in the form of
lifelong incarceration. The circumstances vary greatly between cases
and locking people up for ever is seldom appropriate.

That is a matter of personal opinion. I suspect that many millions would
disagree with you.

Bevan

On Dec 28, 8:01*pm, Charles Ellson wrote:


(**AFAIAA murder is the only offence for which only a life sentence is
available.)



I think not.

From HMG: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/YoungPeo...me/DG_10027693

"The maximum sentences for intent to supply drugs are... up to life in
prison or an unlimited fine (or both) for a Class A drug"

From HMG: http://www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/p...ender/life.htm

"The maximum sentence that can be awarded by the Courts for a number
of other types of offences, for example rape, manslaughter and arson
is life imprisonment".

Wikipedia incidentally lists all common law offences, rape, inflicting
GBH with intent, wounding with intent, treason, aggravated burglary,
criminal damage with intent to endanger life.

But not, yet, cable theft

Patrick


Patrick

"Bevan Price" wrote in message
...
On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& endangering safety of rail passengers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.

Theft of raiway cable can result in the death penalty for the perpetrators.
)

--
Ian1

On Dec 29, 10:07*am, "Ian" wrote:
"Bevan Price" wrote in message

...

On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan *wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& *endangering safety of rail passengers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& *penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. *Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. *When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.

Theft of raiway cable can result in the death penalty for the perpetrators.
)

--
Ian1

IMO not nearly often enough (cue the bleeding hearts).

George

On Dec 29, 10:07*am, "Ian" wrote:
"Bevan Price" wrote in message

...

On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan *wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& *endangering safety of rail passengers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& *penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. *Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. *When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.

Theft of raiway cable can result in the death penalty for the perpetrators.
)

--
Ian1

Yes - the great thing - which just about demonstrates the level of
intelligence of the pickey scrotes - is that some are electrocuted and
even killed when they try to steal live electrical cables. I mean
think of the overall intelligence of someone attacking an overhead
cable with a hack saw. The mind boggles. Electrocution and burns is
too good for them. SB

On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& endangering safety of rail passe ngers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.

As another poster said, the real beef is with the guidlines and the
dickhead who makes them.

George


I would like to see more creative use of charging like happens in the
USA. If there are a series of thefts then charge them with them all and
give them consecutive sentences. Add trespassing on railway property,
endangering passengers and not having a dog licence each with
consecutive sentences. In the UK they seem to chose one specimen charge
often not the most serious one then of course seven years means they
will only serve about three years. The newspapers play along with the
legal system with headlines like "metal thieves get twenty years" which
when you read them actually mean perhaps five people got sentences of up
to five years so will serve two years.

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 00:55:19 +0000, MB wrote:

On 28/12/2011 17:01, furnessvale wrote:
On Dec 28, 4:36 pm, Bevan wrote:

I would suggest that the law needs to be changed so that cable thieves
can be charged with "sabotage& endangering safety of rail passe ngers",
rather than theft, with severe minimum penalties specified by law, such
that some namby-pamby do-gooder could not reduce to a token level of
sentence. Dodgy scrap dealers should also face similarly severe charges
& penalties.

Bevan

No need for that. Theft carries a maximum penalty of 7 years,
handling even more. When did you see anyone, let alone these scroats,
get anywhere near these sorts of tariff.

As another poster said, the real beef is with the guidlines and the
dickhead who makes them.

George


I would like to see more creative use of charging like happens in the
USA. If there are a series of thefts then charge them with them all and
give them consecutive sentences. Add trespassing on railway property,
endangering passengers and not having a dog licence each with
consecutive sentences. In the UK they seem to chose one specimen charge
often not the most serious one then of course seven years means they
will only serve about three years. The newspapers play along with the
legal system with headlines like "metal thieves get twenty years" which
when you read them actually mean perhaps five people got sentences of up
to five years so will serve two years.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-16352524

--
Frank Erskine