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Old December 29th 11, 11:30 AM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.europe
SB SB is offline
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Default Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it happen here...??

Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 00:21:23 +0100
From: weberwu
Subject: Single point of failure in the Berlin Train System

The Berlin light rail train system, plagued by problems for years,
demonstrated today that it can, indeed get worse. Many cars have been
taken out of service for all sorts of ailments, and having pruned the
maintenance shops and the drivers to a bare minimum, there is no room
for dealing with problems. And there have been problems galore.

Berliners joked that it could not possibly get worse, but today (15
Dec 2011) the S-Bahn proved that it could, indeed, because it has a
single point of failure. All switches, all electronic signals, all
information is centralized in one station in Halensee. And the
electricity went out during a routine test of the emergency electrical
system today, according to RBB [1], a local news station. The
emergency system did not kick in - and then nothing worked.

Only two train lines that still have analogue signals and switches
were in operation, the rest was out - and the central operations was
also affected. They had no information on where the trains were.

Many people were trapped in trains stranded between stations. Angry
passengers opened the doors, got out and walked the tracks to the
nearest station, continuing by bus, subway, or taxi.

It took about 3 hours after electricity was restored to have some sort
of traffic running. The Internet information page by the S-Bahn was
down, the server was not able to cope with the traffic. Customers
used Twitter to announce trains in motion, helping people to find some
way to get to work or school.

[1]
http://www.rbb-online.de/nachrichten...sfall_bei.html

Prof. Dr. Debora Weber-Wulff, HTW Berlin, Treskowallee 8, 10313 Berlin
Tel:
+49-30-5019-2440 http://www.f4.htw-berlin.de/people/weberwu/

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Old December 29th 11, 12:05 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.europe
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Default Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??

On Dec 29, 11:30*am, SB wrote:
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 00:21:23 +0100
From: weberwu
Subject: Single point of failure in the Berlin Train System

The Berlin light rail train system, plagued by problems for years,
demonstrated today that it can, indeed get worse. Many cars have been
taken out of service for all sorts of ailments, and having pruned the
maintenance shops and the drivers to a bare minimum, there is no room
for dealing with problems. And there have been problems galore.

Berliners joked that it could not possibly get worse, but today (15
Dec 2011) the S-Bahn proved that it could, indeed, because it has a
single point of failure. All switches, all electronic signals, all
information is centralized in one station in Halensee. And the
electricity went out during a routine test of the emergency electrical
system today, according to RBB [1], a local news station. *The
emergency system did not kick in - and then nothing worked.

Only two train lines that still have analogue signals and switches
were in operation, the rest was out - and the central operations was
also affected. They had no information on where the trains were.

Many people were trapped in trains stranded between stations. *Angry
passengers opened the doors, got out and walked the tracks to the
nearest station, continuing by bus, subway, or taxi.

It took about 3 hours after electricity was restored to have some sort
of traffic running. The Internet information page by the S-Bahn was
down, the server was not able to cope with the traffic. *Customers
used Twitter to announce trains in motion, helping people to find some
way to get to work or school.

[1]http://www.rbb-online.de/nachrichten/vermischtes/2011_12/komplett_aus....

Prof. Dr. Debora Weber-Wulff, HTW Berlin, Treskowallee 8, 10313 Berlin
Tel:
+49-30-5019-2440http://www.f4.htw-berlin.de/people/weberwu/


BlackBerry had a similar outage problem, the backup system worked when
tested but didn't when there was a failure

Patrick
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Old December 29th 11, 12:15 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.europe
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Default Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it happen here...??

SB wrote:
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 00:21:23 +0100
From: weberwu
Subject: Single point of failure in the Berlin Train System

The Berlin light rail train system, plagued by problems for years,
demonstrated today that it can, indeed get worse. Many cars have been
taken out of service for all sorts of ailments, and having pruned the
maintenance shops and the drivers to a bare minimum, there is no room
for dealing with problems. And there have been problems galore.


The Berlin S-Bahn getting "pruned" a little bit concerning staff still
needs significantly more staff per passenger kilometre, passenger carried,
train or seat kilometres or network length offered than any other S-Bahn
system in Germany.
These benchmarking figures for Berlin are between 20% and 50% below those
of others German agglomerations, while punctuality and quality of service
offered elsewhere is much better.

This rotten company in Berlin should be closed. Tendering the S-Bahn
services could be the first step.


Oliver Schnell
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Old December 29th 11, 12:16 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.europe
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Default Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??


SB schrieb:


The Berlin light rail train system,


The S-Bahn isn't a light rail system, at least not by European standards.

By US standards, it would be, but by US standards, the ICE is a light
rail system, too.


Many people were trapped in trains stranded between stations. Angry
passengers opened the doors, got out and walked the tracks to the
nearest station, continuing by bus, subway, or taxi.

It took about 3 hours after electricity was restored to have some sort
of traffic running.


Without the angry passengers, it might have been 1 hour. "Persons on the
tracks" means, that operation can't resume, even with everything back to
normal.


The Internet information page by the S-Bahn was
down, the server was not able to cope with the traffic.


Fearless prediction: The same would happen to government servers in a
catastrophe situation.



Hans-Joachim


--

Frieda Uffelmann * 15. August 1915 â€* 9. Dezember 2011

http://zierke.com/private/tante_frie...abgestellt.jpg
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Old December 29th 11, 12:25 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.europe
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Default Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it happen here...??

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 03:30:37 -0800 (PST)
SB wrote:
Berliners joked that it could not possibly get worse, but today (15
Dec 2011) the S-Bahn proved that it could, indeed, because it has a
single point of failure. All switches, all electronic signals, all
information is centralized in one station in Halensee. And the


Probably designed by the same geniuses that thought linking train door
interlocks in new trains to GPS signals was a good idea. The driver now can't
open the doors by mistake when the train isn't at a station. No, but neither
could he open the doors where the GPS signal is poor like in, oh I don't know,
stations that have an office block about them that block the signal such as
at London Victoria. And of course if someone has a GPS blocker handy ...

B2003




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Old December 29th 11, 12:31 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.europe
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Default Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it

On 29 Dec 2011 12:16:58 GMT
Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote:
Without the angry passengers, it might have been 1 hour. "Persons on the
tracks" means, that operation can't resume, even with everything back to
normal.


People are not dumb cattle and will not just sit on a train with no
information forever if they can get out and continue their journey on foot.
This has happened in the UK a number of times and train operators need to take
human behaviour into account when failures happen. Just expecting people to
sit and wait for an indeterminate period of time and do nothing is moronic.

B2003


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Old December 29th 11, 01:10 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.europe
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Default Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??

On Dec 29, 12:15*pm, Oliver Schnell wrote:
SB wrote:
Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 00:21:23 +0100
From: weberwu
Subject: Single point of failure in the Berlin Train System


The Berlin light rail train system, plagued by problems for years,
demonstrated today that it can, indeed get worse. Many cars have been
taken out of service for all sorts of ailments, and having pruned the
maintenance shops and the drivers to a bare minimum, there is no room
for dealing with problems. And there have been problems galore.


The Berlin S-Bahn getting "pruned" a little bit concerning staff still
needs significantly more staff per passenger kilometre, passenger carried,
train or seat kilometres or network length offered than any other S-Bahn
system in Germany.


Why do they still use platform dispatchers? Why not use the signalling
system to regulate trains?
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Old December 29th 11, 03:16 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.europe
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Default Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it happen here...??

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 12:15:26 +0000 (UTC), Oliver Schnell
wrote:
This rotten company in Berlin should be closed.


It's just DB AG, no?

As for tendering, that's a good way to make it cost more.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK
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Old December 29th 11, 03:17 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.europe
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Default Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could it happen here...??

On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 05:10:08 -0800 (PST), EE507
wrote:
Why do they still use platform dispatchers?


The same reason LUL do, presumably - because DOO monitors are hard to
use with big crowds.

Neil

--
Neil Williams, Milton Keynes, UK
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Old December 29th 11, 04:23 PM posted to uk.railway,uk.transport.london,misc.transport.rail.europe
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Default Complete (almost) Shutdown of Berlin Train System - could ithappen here...??

Am 29.12.2011 13:15, misanthropis Oliver Schnell wrote:

This rotten company in Berlin should be closed. Tendering the S-Bahn
services could be the first step.


Maybe you want to retry fascism again in order to smash the trade
unions? Put workers in concentration camps and smash their skulls so
that they never again try to defend their wages and working conditions?





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