On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 03:23:50 -0000, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Also online shopping can be a real pain because of the delivery firms,
especially if you live in any sort of flat or compound - which is a large
number and growing out here, including those without a direct intercom to
individual flats at street level. A lot of the courier firms have not put
together a proper strategy for how to deliver to such flats beyond turn up
at the gate, shrug shoulders, drive off and bill the sender for
non-delivery. (By contrast the likes of Pizza Hut have worked out things
like taking telephone numbers and issuing their deliverers with phones to
contact buyers directly, whilst Royal Mail usually have keys.) Throw in the
inability to deliver on the day predicted & taken off work, and you can
understand why online shopping ain't great for all.

Here in Norway the parcel is left at the post office and a notice is sent
through the mail when the recipient is not at home.

--
jhk

Jarle H Knudsen wrote:

Also online shopping can be a real pain because of the delivery firms,
especially if you live in any sort of flat or compound - which is a large
number and growing out here, including those without a direct intercom to
individual flats at street level. A lot of the courier firms have not put
together a proper strategy for how to deliver to such flats beyond turn
up
at the gate, shrug shoulders, drive off and bill the sender for
non-delivery. (By contrast the likes of Pizza Hut have worked out things
like taking telephone numbers and issuing their deliverers with phones to
contact buyers directly, whilst Royal Mail usually have keys.) Throw in
the
inability to deliver on the day predicted & taken off work, and you can
understand why online shopping ain't great for all.

Here in Norway the parcel is left at the post office and a notice is sent
through the mail when the recipient is not at home.

We basically have the same here with Royal Mail and Parcelforce (part of the
Royal Mail set-up but separate deliveries et al). Royal Mail will put a form
through the letterbox and take it to the local sorting office. Parcelforce,
if they can't get in the building, will take it to the local (sizeable) Post
Office and send a note via the mail. In both cases I like these, not least
because I live just round the corner from both the Post Office and sorting
office, and both open on Saturday mornings.

The problem is with a lot of other courier firms, many of whom have their
roots in business deliveries (although one started up as the delivery
service for a catalogue mainly aimed at housewives - i.e. buyers most likely
to be in during day times, usually in suburbs and towns where the front door
is accessible from the street). The root of the trouble is they don't have a
home delivery mindset and operate on the basis that someone will always be
there to take the parcel, 8am to 7pm Mondays to Fridays. Generally that's
fine for office deliveries but for home deliveries:

* Predicted delivery times & dates are poorly met, to frustration on the one
side that days are taken off work for no reason, on the other for prolonging
the delivery round
* Some drivers cut corners by just quietly sneaking up to the door and
shoving a "sorry you were out" card on the first attempt
* Several of the firms don't do Saturday deliveries or open the depots for
collection at a home convenient time
* The depots themselves are invariably on out of the way industrial estates
poorly served by public transport. It's even worse outside the big cities
because often the depot is in another town a long way away
* The firms don't issue their drivers with equipment that's increasingly
standard for other deliverers, particularly mobile phones for contacting the
recipient to gain access (and also sat navs for more rural deliveries)
* The firms make no effort to develop a proper strategy for delivering to
flats without concierges; nor do they ever bother to black list addresses
and make the seller go elsewhere
* Some firms insist on all items being signed for, even small items that
will fit through the letter box

It's not *just* the courier firms though - a lot of online sellers fail to
give sufficient information about how stuff will be delivered, particularly
which delivery firm will be used, and sometimes don't meet their promise
(very frustrating if you specifically choose them because you were under the
impression they use Royal Mail and get Yodel). They also often make promises
that the couriers can't meet - particularly promising next day deliveries
for Saturdays. Plus there are often communication breakdowns between the
two, both individually about the delivery information passed on, but also
more generally about the expected volume of sales for particular periods
(there have been several years when Amazon have got their numbers badly
wrong and so the couriers haven't taken & trained enough extra staff).

I think the singlest biggest thing the whole delivery industry needs to do
is to basically ask the customers, the deliverers and the sellers "Would you
prefer delivery as quickly as possible, or would you prefer as accurate a
delivery date & time as possible?" Currently the assumption is the former,
because business expects as quickly as possible, business usually has all
delivery times covered, and the early online home shoppers were the likes of
Amazon who were mainly sending parcels that didn't need signing for and
fitted through the average letterbox. But I think a lot of people would
prefer accurate predictions that allow them to take time off work in the
confidence the item will arrive.

In one regard the courier mess offers a good opportunity to a lot of chain
stores that also sell online. If they offer the option to collect purchases
from a chosen branch then they can more foot traffic and income for the
branch, whilst from the customer point of view you've got control over where
you have to go to collect the goods and it's easier to get to find and reach
a high street shop on a Saturday than rushing round the backwaters of an
industrial estate at ten to seven on a weekday night.

On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:25:05 -0000, "Tim Roll-Pickering"
wrote:

Jarle H Knudsen wrote:
Here in Norway the parcel is left at the post office and a notice is sent
through the mail when the recipient is not at home.

We basically have the same here with Royal Mail and Parcelforce (part of the
Royal Mail set-up but separate deliveries et al). Royal Mail will put a form
through the letterbox and take it to the local sorting office. Parcelforce,
if they can't get in the building, will take it to the local (sizeable) Post
Office and send a note via the mail. [...]

The problem is with a lot of other courier firms
[...]
The root of the trouble is they don't have a
home delivery mindset and operate on the basis that someone will always be
there to take the parcel, 8am to 7pm Mondays to Fridays.
[...]
it's easier to get to find and reach
a high street shop on a Saturday than rushing round the backwaters of an
industrial estate at ten to seven on a weekday night.

I agree with all of that... I paid for (or failed to cancel) Amazon
Prime and find it *very* useful but I almost always pick Royal Mail as
the delivery method as even though it may take an extra day I know
they are more intelligent and flexible at finding a way to deliver the
parcel and if they don't it's only a short way away. I have had
enough trips to the arse end of Epsom, Merton, Guildford and Heathrow
to do anything else.

Like many things, I don't think we appreciate what we have before
moaning about it...

Richard.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 20:45:38
on Wed, 22 Feb 2012, Neil Williams remarked:
They said they can only upgrade Travelcards that aren't valid on HS1. By
which they mean say "Not HS1" - if it says "Any Permitted" then it's
also not valid on HS1, but can't be upgraded. (Everyone following this?)

HS1 is not part of the Zones (same as, say, Heathrow Express), so I think
they are confused.

Does that mean there's actually no such thing as an "&HS1" Travelcard?

If they'd said HS1 was outside the zones (which now you mention it I
probably know) it would have made the conversation much simpler.

The route on a Travelcard refers to use outside the Zones.

So what they mean is they can upgrade "not HS1" outboundary Travelcards
from that side of things.

It's not so much an upgrade, as a supplement for one ride on the HS1.
Maybe it *is* just the same as buying a new ticket?

It's the supplement for the complete route to Ebbsfleet. As such, it's far
cheaper than a new ticket.

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message
, at
17:31:38 on Wed, 22 Feb 2012, Mizter T remarked:

On Feb 22, 8:07 pm, Neil Williams wrote:

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 19:52:06 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:
Does that mean there's actually no such thing as an "&HS1"
Travelcard?

AIUI correct.

In terms of inboundary Travelcards, yes I agree. (For an outboundary
Travelcard - from say Ashford or Dover, it'll either be "Route: any
permitted" and so valid on HS1, or "Route: Not HS1" but upgradable for
travel on HS1 with a supplement.

The chap at the station specifically said that an outboundary Travelcard
marked "Any Permitted" was *not* valid on HS1. He looked at that part of
mine, and didn't even read where it was issued (because he asked that
later). He said that (eg) Ashford ones would have some sort of "&HS1"
routing (I forget the exact phrase).

You were right first time.

They say "any permitted" or "Not HS1" where that indication ONLY applies to
the "single use" part of the ticket. It is irrelevant to any travelcard
element of the ticket, which (as you have been told) is never valid on HS1.

Of course, to see whether HS1 is permitted on an Any permitted ticket
requires you to look at the routing guide (in the same way that you might if
you wanted to know if it is valid to travel e.g. from Manchester into
Paddington via Reading - which IIRC used to be valid, but isn't any more).


It's not so much an upgrade, as a supplement for one ride on the
HS1. Maybe it *is* just the same as buying a new ticket?

I think it may well be.

Ditto.

For Stratford Int'l to St Pancras Int'l...

Anytime Single - GBP5.70.
Anytime Day Return - GBP9.80
Off Peak Day Return - GBP7.30

I have a feeling he quoted £5.30, bicbw.

There's no way of upgrading an inboundary Travelcard (nor indeed an
outboundary Travelcard for a journey that would never go via HS1 even
on payment of a supplement, e.g. Reading to London Travelcard, or
Cambridge to London Travelcard).

Indeed, but what about a supplement, to add a one-shot HS1 trip?

There isn't one - live with it :-)

tim

"Jarle H Knudsen" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 24 Feb 2012 03:23:50 -0000, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

Also online shopping can be a real pain because of the delivery firms,
especially if you live in any sort of flat or compound - which is a large
number and growing out here, including those without a direct intercom to
individual flats at street level. A lot of the courier firms have not put
together a proper strategy for how to deliver to such flats beyond turn
up
at the gate, shrug shoulders, drive off and bill the sender for
non-delivery. (By contrast the likes of Pizza Hut have worked out things
like taking telephone numbers and issuing their deliverers with phones to
contact buyers directly, whilst Royal Mail usually have keys.) Throw in
the
inability to deliver on the day predicted & taken off work, and you can
understand why online shopping ain't great for all.

Here in Norway the parcel is left at the post office and a notice is sent
through the mail when the recipient is not at home.

We used to have that system here, but because "parcel deliver companies"
charge less than the "mail" do for delivering parcels most retailers insist
on using the cheaper version even though it's not their money and all they
do is re-charge the costs to the punter.

So, I save 2 quid on the delivery at the expense of wasting 6 hours of my
time - and people think that online shopping is a great idea!


tim

In message , at 14:59:57 on Sat, 25 Feb
2012, tim.... remarked:
They say "any permitted" or "Not HS1" where that indication ONLY applies to
the "single use" part of the ticket. It is irrelevant to any travelcard
element of the ticket, which (as you have been told) is never valid on HS1.

So if the chap was correct in saying there were "&HS1" Travelcards,
you'd have to bail out to the tube/overground/etc at Stratford on the
inbound journey (having arrived at Stratford on a Javelin from Kent)

Or is there some misunderstanding about the existence of such tickets?
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 14:59:57 on Sat, 25 Feb
2012, tim.... remarked:
They say "any permitted" or "Not HS1" where that indication ONLY applies
to
the "single use" part of the ticket. It is irrelevant to any travelcard
element of the ticket, which (as you have been told) is never valid on
HS1.

So if the chap was correct in saying there were "&HS1" Travelcards, you'd
have to bail out to the tube/overground/etc at Stratford on the inbound
journey (having arrived at Stratford on a Javelin from Kent)

Or is there some misunderstanding about the existence of such tickets?

I don't think he is right in saying that there are some routes with "+HS1"
tickets (as in a single main ticket, not an add on) but as I (obviously)
haven't checked all the possibilities there might be.

But if there is, the same rule would apply that the +HS1 is only applicable
to the single through journey to/from Ebbsfleet to London and would be valid
to either StP for Stratford for one single journey (per direction of
ticket).

Though one thing I don't know (and have been meaning to try for ages) is,
can I break my journey at Stratford (to visit the shopping centre) and then
continue later to StP (which would be my intended destination whenever I buy
super expensive ticket)?

tim

In message , at 17:13:22 on Sat, 25 Feb
2012, tim.... remarked:
I don't think he is right in saying that there are some routes with "+HS1"
tickets

Kent-issued outboundary Travelcards, specifically.

(as in a single main ticket, not an add on) but as I (obviously)
haven't checked all the possibilities there might be.

But if there is, the same rule would apply that the +HS1 is only applicable
to the single through journey to/from Ebbsfleet to London and would be valid
to either StP for Stratford for one single journey (per direction of
ticket).

The "only one journey" rule applies to the part outside the Travelcard
zones, once inside you can make as many journeys as you like (modulo the
possibility that even the semi-mythical +HS1 Travelcard might be invalid
from Stratford to StP.

Though one thing I don't know (and have been meaning to try for ages) is,
can I break my journey at Stratford (to visit the shopping centre) and then
continue later to StP (which would be my intended destination whenever I buy
super expensive ticket)?

If it's a CDR on HS1, then it should allow BoJ.
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , at 17:13:22 on Sat, 25 Feb
2012, tim.... remarked:
I don't think he is right in saying that there are some routes with "+HS1"
tickets

Kent-issued outboundary Travelcards, specifically.

The "Kent part is clear, and I don't think that it being a TC makes it any
different to a through ticket to somewhere North (/West) of London.

I'm reasonably sure that all of the obvious Kent origins work as I've
described, but their could be some weird ones for which the "any permitted"
didn't allow travel via Ashford on the historic line, but which makes sense
to use HS1 - Hasting via Rye, may be one. Or Headcorn to London which
wasn't available via HS1 (ISTR that if your origin is Pluckley doubling back
from Ashford is allowed), until they introduced the Maidstone service.



(as in a single main ticket, not an add on) but as I (obviously)
haven't checked all the possibilities there might be.

But if there is, the same rule would apply that the +HS1 is only
applicable
to the single through journey to/from Ebbsfleet to London and would be
valid
to either StP for Stratford for one single journey (per direction of
ticket).

The "only one journey" rule applies to the part outside the Travelcard
zones, once inside you can make as many journeys as you like (modulo the
possibility that even the semi-mythical +HS1 Travelcard might be invalid
from Stratford to StP.

No, I don't think so. HS1 is part of your inbound journey and can only be
travelled once.


Though one thing I don't know (and have been meaning to try for ages) is,
can I break my journey at Stratford (to visit the shopping centre) and
then
continue later to StP (which would be my intended destination whenever I
buy
super expensive ticket)?

If it's a CDR on HS1, then it should allow BoJ.

I know, but how do I prove that.

tim