In message of Thu, 1
Mar 2012 22:19:25 in uk.railway, Jim Hawkins
writes
Tony Dragon wrote:
On 01/03/2012 21:35, Jim Hawkins wrote:
How do I find out if a particular railway station is considered to
be in the Greater London area for Oyster/Travelcard purposes - apart
from actually going to it
and asking ?
My present stations of interest are Marlow and Maidenhead, but is
there a definitive
list anywhere ?

Neither Marlow nor Maidenhead is in the Oyster area.
I trust Crossrail will alter that for those who live so long.


Jim Hawkins


Yes Tony, I knew about the map, but it's virtually useless unless you can
print it out greatly enlarged, which I certainly can't. I know you can
enlarge bits of it on-screen using Adobe Reader, but I'd much prefer a
simple text list of stations (which I can print out), or better, a printed
copy of the map about the size of an OS Landranger map.
Are either of those available I wonder ?

The Single Fare Finder at http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/faresandtic
kets/farefinder/current/default.aspx contains an alphabetic list of
stations in its source. If you can't extract that list, I will email one
as a .txt file

It reads
stations[0] = "Abbey Road";
stations[1] = "Abbey Wood [National Rail]";
stations[2] = "Acton Central";
....
stations[621] = "Woolwich Arsenal";
stations[622] = "Woolwich Dockyard [National Rail]";
stations[623] = "Worcester Park [National Rail]";

I have only recently discovered how to drive that URL from the address
bar. e.g. http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/tickets/fa...ts/farefinder/
current/default.aspx?mode=alternate&on=City+Thameslink+[National+Rail]&d
n=Battersea+Park+[National+Rail]&ft=Adult
That gives full information. I have not found out how to get the partial
information which the fare finder returns by default.
City Thameslink and Battersea Park is the only completely asymmetrically
priced journey in the fare finder. I flagged this to the Oyster Customer
Service Centre. It seems the journey is classed as being in zone 2,
rather than between zone 1 and 2.

Slightly less technical is the 2nd page of London Rail and Tube services
map http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloa...rail-and-tube-
services-map.pdf - a list of stations. Copy and paste each column in
turn and remove the grid squares.

I have added uk.transport.london to newsgroups.
--
Walter Briscoe

In message , at 09:20:29 on Fri, 2
Mar 2012, Walter Briscoe remarked:
Neither Marlow nor Maidenhead is in the Oyster area.
I trust Crossrail will alter that for those who live so long.

Wonkypedia says it will, but without any citations to back it up.

Another reason why specifying Reading as the initial western terminus
might have been a "touch too far".

Oyster is already being extended to Shenfield as part of the new AGA
franchise. It's not on the map yet (stops at Harold Wood).
--
Roland Perry

On 02/03/2012 09:36, Roland Perry wrote:

In message , at 09:20:29 on Fri, 2
Mar 2012, Walter Briscoe remarked:
Neither Marlow nor Maidenhead is in the Oyster area.
I trust Crossrail will alter that for those who live so long.

Wonkypedia says it will, but without any citations to back it up.

Another reason why specifying Reading as the initial western terminus
might have been a "touch too far".

I don't think a ticketing system will drive the decision as to where
Crossrail will terminate at all.

The Crossrail service will be run by TfL, perhaps on a concession basis
a la London Overground - when LO started (when TfL took over
responsibility for the old Silverlink Metro routes), TfL implemented
Oyster PAYG across the whole LO network including to Watford Junction -
(outside of Greater London, and outside TfL's zone 9).

London Midland is responsible for setting fares to/from WJ, and
initially Oyster PAYG was effectively an LO-only ticket to/from WJ - the
problem being that there were shared LM and LO gatelines at WJ and
Euston, so the only way to enforce this was on-train ticket checks.

This basically forced LM's hand to accept Oyster PAYG to/from WJ on
their own services - they did so after a week or two, and now Oyster
PAYG fares to/from WJ are I think essentially set by LM (or at least in
conjunction with them), rather than being set by TfL.

I imagine a large reason for this rather less than ideal (albeit very
short lived) situation was that London Midland was itself a brand new
franchisee, taking over Silverlink County services at the same time as
TfL took over Silverlink Metro services.

Point being, if Crossrail's going to Reading, then TfL will take Oyster
PAYG acceptance with it there - and the GWML operator will have to
accept Oyster PAYG to/from Reading. (Apart from anything else I'd be
pretty sure that DfT Rail would make this a franchise commitment.)


Oyster is already being extended to Shenfield as part of the new AGA
franchise. It's not on the map yet (stops at Harold Wood).

Though maybe later this year.

"Mizter T" wrote in message
...

Point being, if Crossrail's going to Reading, then TfL will take Oyster
PAYG acceptance with it there - and the GWML operator will have to accept
Oyster PAYG to/from Reading. (Apart from anything else I'd be pretty sure
that DfT Rail would make this a franchise commitment.)

But what will the entry charge (max cash fare) have to rise to - and will it
have to be charged at every PAYG entry barrier? Could be beyond the
practical limit for the current charging model - but maybe OK with EMV once
it is in use...

Single to Reading is currently £20.60 peak, £16.40 off-peak.

Paul S

On 02/03/2012 11:50, Paul Scott wrote:

"Mizter T" wrote:

Point being, if Crossrail's going to Reading, then TfL will take Oyster
PAYG acceptance with it there - and the GWML operator will have to accept
Oyster PAYG to/from Reading. (Apart from anything else I'd be pretty sure
that DfT Rail would make this a franchise commitment.)

But what will the entry charge (max cash fare) have to rise to -
and will it have to be charged at every PAYG entry barrier?
Could be beyond the practical limit for the current charging model
- but maybe OK with EMV once it is in use...

Single to Reading is currently £20.60 peak, £16.40 off-peak.

Fair point, though the entry charges do currently vary between different
stations (and also vary between peak and off-peak PAYG charging periods).

It's only really possible to fathom out what entry charges apply at
ungated stations, or those with the gates locked open (i.e. know the
balance on your card, touch-in then check balance at a TVM) - though
there are one or two locations with TVMs located within the paid area
(e.g. Stratford). Well, either that or intentionally don't touch-out so
as to get an unresolved journey - a potentially rather expensive way to
sate one's curiosity though!

I can't offer a comprehensive list of examples, but I can say with
certainty that the entry charge isn't £7.80 universally - this TfL page
says "up to £7.80" (which I assume would be the max peak period entry
charge at at least one location - maybe that's what it is at Watford
Junction?).

In message , at 11:50:25 on
Fri, 2 Mar 2012, Paul Scott remarked:
Point being, if Crossrail's going to Reading, then TfL will take Oyster
PAYG acceptance with it there - and the GWML operator will have to accept
Oyster PAYG to/from Reading. (Apart from anything else I'd be pretty sure
that DfT Rail would make this a franchise commitment.)

But what will the entry charge (max cash fare) have to rise to - and will it
have to be charged at every PAYG entry barrier? Could be beyond the
practical limit for the current charging model - but maybe OK with EMV
once it is in use...

Single to Reading is currently £20.60 peak, £16.40 off-peak.

Exactly, and what happens when you want to deduct £20.60 off a card
that's got £1 on it and only a £10 auto-topup enabled?
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:40:41 +0000
Mizter T wrote:
Point being, if Crossrail's going to Reading, then TfL will take Oyster
PAYG acceptance with it there - and the GWML operator will have to
accept Oyster PAYG to/from Reading. (Apart from anything else I'd be
pretty sure that DfT Rail would make this a franchise commitment.)

I wonder if its a good idea for crossrail to go as far out as it will. The
longer a line is the less reliable it becomes as there are more opportunities
for failure - look at thameslink. Is crossrail being built to take the pressure
off the central line or is it meant to be simply an east-west thameslink
service?

B2003

On Mar 2, 11:53*am, wrote:
On Fri, 02 Mar 2012 11:40:41 +0000

Mizter T wrote:
Point being, if Crossrail's going to Reading, then TfL will take Oyster
PAYG acceptance with it there - and the GWML operator will have to
accept Oyster PAYG to/from Reading. (Apart from anything else I'd be
pretty sure that DfT Rail would make this a franchise commitment.)

I wonder if its a good idea for crossrail to go as far out as it will. The
longer a line is the less reliable it becomes as there are more opportunities
for failure - look at thameslink.

An alternative view is the extending the Crossrail to Reading would
allow Crossrail to take (nearly) all the slots on the relief lines
allowing simplification of the service pattern as will be happening at
the eastern end. The problems with Thameslink are more due to the
complex network in the south of London, with many junctions to
negotiate.


Is crossrail being built to take the pressure off the central line or is it meant to be simply an east-west thameslink
service?


Surely it is designed to do both, linking the extremities into central
London better as well as relieving the Central line.

On Fri, 2 Mar 2012 06:05:41 -0800 (PST)
Andy wrote:
Is crossrail being built to take the pressure off the central line or is =
it meant to be simply an east-west thameslink
service?


Surely it is designed to do both, linking the extremities into central
London better as well as relieving the Central line.

Not necessarily. It depends on the frequency of trains. If there's only
going to be a train every 15 or 30 minutes in the centre then I suspect
anyone who wants to do a tube length journey - say from paddington to
farringdon - will just use the tube. And thats assuming they don't stiff
passengers for "special" fares for the "priviledge" of using it as per
heathrow connect.

B2003

In message , at 11:40:41 on Fri, 2 Mar 2012,
Mizter T remarked:
Point being, if Crossrail's going to Reading, then TfL will take Oyster
PAYG acceptance with it there - and the GWML operator will have to
accept Oyster PAYG to/from Reading. (Apart from anything else I'd be
pretty sure that DfT Rail would make this a franchise commitment.)

It would, but with a day return at almost £40 I think they may have to
re-think the auto-topup thresholds.
--
Roland Perry