Recliner wrote:
On Tue, 22 May 2012 00:07:07 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
Hybrid technology based on a diesel engine is available - the Peugeot/Citroen gruop recently launched this. It's available in cars such as the Citroen DS5 or Peugeot 3008. (Though the roads tests I've seen suggest the automated gearbox is dreadfully jerky - no doubt that can be improved).

I don't think it's a "no brainer" for vans. A few thoughts.
(1) The diesel hybrid power-train is more expensive than a plain diesel engine. Most commercial vehicles are bought down to cost - the buyers won't stand the additional purchase cost.
(2) Fleet managers are oonservative and slow to adapt to new technology. Their vehicles do huge mileages - but as this diesel hybrid powertrain is so new, there is no "real world" reliability data
(3) The battery pack adds weight - which reduces the available payload of the van. My hunch is that this will be the most difficult hurdle to overcome.

That's all true, and I might add that the limited life of the battery
pack may also be an issue. They're expensive to replace, and won't
last as long as the rest of the power train.


The life of the battery packs and their cost of replacement shouldn't
feature. New vans are bought with a (usually) 3- to (exceptionally)
5-year lifespan in mind and battery packs can be expected to last
considerably longer than that.

But the comparatively huge initial cost of the battery pack is a real
problem because it cannot easily be written off over three years.
Perhaps the answer would be to buy the van and lease the battery pack,
a model that Renault is using for its electric cars - and possibly
also its vans?

Mercedes is also proposing this for the Smart ED electric car. I
signed up for one last year, but the leasing cost is proving
prohibitive. Together with the problems of charging the vehicle
(there is no off-road parking available for it) I have reluctantly
withdrawn and bought a small petrol car instead.

On Tue, 22 May 2012 11:02:31 +0100
Bruce wrote:
The life of the battery packs and their cost of replacement shouldn't
feature. New vans are bought with a (usually) 3- to (exceptionally)
5-year lifespan in mind and battery packs can be expected to last
considerably longer than that.

Not necessarily. Its usage more than age that kills the batteries. In that
time your average van could do 200K miles and no battery pack yet on the
market is guaranteed for that mileage.

B2003

On Tue, 22 May 2012 10:04:47 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

On Tue, 22 May 2012 11:02:31 +0100
Bruce wrote:
The life of the battery packs and their cost of replacement shouldn't
feature. New vans are bought with a (usually) 3- to (exceptionally)
5-year lifespan in mind and battery packs can be expected to last
considerably longer than that.

Not necessarily. Its usage more than age that kills the batteries. In that
time your average van could do 200K miles and no battery pack yet on the
market is guaranteed for that mileage.

Yes, I think it's the number of recharging cycles, rather than the
chronological age, that determines the useful life of a battery pack,
so commercial vehicles are likely to get through them much more
rapidly than private cars. In any case, the resale value of the van
will be significantly diminished if the battery pack is nearing the
end of its life.

Recliner wrote:

On Tue, 22 May 2012 10:04:47 +0000 (UTC), d
wrote:

On Tue, 22 May 2012 11:02:31 +0100
Bruce wrote:
The life of the battery packs and their cost of replacement shouldn't
feature. New vans are bought with a (usually) 3- to (exceptionally)
5-year lifespan in mind and battery packs can be expected to last
considerably longer than that.

Not necessarily. Its usage more than age that kills the batteries. In that
time your average van could do 200K miles and no battery pack yet on the
market is guaranteed for that mileage.

Yes, I think it's the number of recharging cycles, rather than the
chronological age, that determines the useful life of a battery pack,
so commercial vehicles are likely to get through them much more
rapidly than private cars.


That is nonsense, because whether the vehicle is a commercial van or a
private car it is almost certain to be charged once every 24 hours.


In any case, the resale value of the van
will be significantly diminished if the battery pack is nearing the
end of its life.


That does not appear to be a factor in resale values of the Toyota
Prius, which has been on sale a lot longer than any other hybrid car.

On Tue, 22 May 2012 11:25:52 +0100
Bruce wrote:
Yes, I think it's the number of recharging cycles, rather than the
chronological age, that determines the useful life of a battery pack,
so commercial vehicles are likely to get through them much more
rapidly than private cars.


That is nonsense, because whether the vehicle is a commercial van or a
private car it is almost certain to be charged once every 24 hours.

If its a hybrid it'll be recharging itself and it'll be doing it a lot more
often if its being used 12 hours a day.

That does not appear to be a factor in resale values of the Toyota
Prius, which has been on sale a lot longer than any other hybrid car.

I doubt many of them have been driven the distance to the moon and back yet.

B2003