" wrote:
On 13/05/2013 13:08, Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2013 12:54:14 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:04:42 on
Mon, 13 May 2013, Recliner remarked:
There's a pedestrian on the motorway in this pic, but the main lesson
is how drivers have to weave their way along the broad highway to
avoid craters:

So the problem seems to be a lack of tarmac paving the road, rather than
just having crushed stone?

Even when there is tarmac, it tends to be in poor condition (it's
probably another thing they're short of, as well road building
machines). Concrete roads probably do badly in North Korea's weather
(very cold winters, hot summers) and need more maintenance than they
can provide.

How was the road to Kaesong, however, considering its importance from a
military and political perspective?

As expected, that dual-carriage road was much much better maintained. Still
not to UK standards, but capable of 100 km/h or so. As you get nearer to
Kaesong, there are anti-tank barriers in every cutting that look like
they've been there a long time.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/recline...57633469222908

On 13/05/2013 20:41, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 13/05/2013 13:08, Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2013 12:54:14 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:04:42 on
Mon, 13 May 2013, Recliner remarked:
There's a pedestrian on the motorway in this pic, but the main lesson
is how drivers have to weave their way along the broad highway to
avoid craters:

So the problem seems to be a lack of tarmac paving the road, rather than
just having crushed stone?

Even when there is tarmac, it tends to be in poor condition (it's
probably another thing they're short of, as well road building
machines). Concrete roads probably do badly in North Korea's weather
(very cold winters, hot summers) and need more maintenance than they
can provide.

How was the road to Kaesong, however, considering its importance from a
military and political perspective?

The wide, straight roads themselves seem to have been well engineered
originally, with plenty of viaducts, bridges and tunnels through the
mountains, but the funds to keep them in good condition seem not to be
there (they're probably diverted to creating more leaders' statues and
grand buildings). As most people aren't allowed to travel, it probably
isn't an issue for the population at large, but it does seem odd that
by far the worst road we travelled on was the one connecting the main
port and the capital. We did see some freight trains, so that may be
how most goods move.

I have also seen some footage of freight trains in the Nampo area on
videos about the building of the Western Sea Barrier.

I have not heard of many cases where tourists have visited Nampo, I must say.

Yes, we drove along the sea barrage, saw the video in the visitor centre,
looked at the sea locks, etc. As a ship was passing through, we couldn't go
over the locks themselves. The road and railway line over the barrage
didn't seem to be heavily used.

We noticed what looked like a new comms cable being installed along the
road to the barrier. It was being done by thousands of volunteers (whose
bikes were parked along the road), hand digging a ditch and laying the
cable in it. No culvert, just the cable dropped in the probably not very
straight ditch.


I was under the impression that Nampo as a city had a strategic
importance and thus would be off limits to outsiders.

On 13/05/2013 20:53, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 13/05/2013 13:08, Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2013 12:54:14 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 11:04:42 on
Mon, 13 May 2013, Recliner remarked:
There's a pedestrian on the motorway in this pic, but the main lesson
is how drivers have to weave their way along the broad highway to
avoid craters:

So the problem seems to be a lack of tarmac paving the road, rather than
just having crushed stone?

Even when there is tarmac, it tends to be in poor condition (it's
probably another thing they're short of, as well road building
machines). Concrete roads probably do badly in North Korea's weather
(very cold winters, hot summers) and need more maintenance than they
can provide.

How was the road to Kaesong, however, considering its importance from a
military and political perspective?

As expected, that dual-carriage road was much much better maintained. Still
not to UK standards, but capable of 100 km/h or so. As you get nearer to
Kaesong, there are anti-tank barriers in every cutting that look like
they've been there a long time.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/recline...57633469222908


In order to move the military quickly, in case of an emergency.

One of the reasons for Eisenhower's interstate motorway programme in the
United States, AIUI.

On 13/05/2013 20:41, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 13/05/2013 11:04, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 12 May 2013 18:31:37 +0100, Paul Corfield
wrote:

On Sun, 12 May 2013 09:21:17 -0500, Recliner
wrote:


As a result, you see many more bikes on the motorways outside the capital,
often cycling in the wrong direction in the fast lane, or straight across
the motorway; neither causes much of a problem to the few motor vehicles
weaving their way around the pot holes.

Bicycles on the motorway! Well I think I can safely say that you
manage to surprise me every time you post about N Korea. It sounds
like one of the weirdest places on earth. I know it's a closed
militarised society and a dictatorship with the full quotient of
brainwashing but you do have to wonder how the N Koreans put up with
all of this. It's almost beyond my comprehension.

No bikes in this pic, but you get an idea of the state of the
motorways in the country:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/recline...in/photostream

There's a pedestrian on the motorway in this pic, but the main lesson
is how drivers have to weave their way along the broad highway to
avoid craters:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/recline...in/photostream

As you can see, I had to set the pocket camera to its fastest shutter
speed (1/2000 sec) to get sharp pictures from the bouncing (but not
speeding) bus.

The motorway to the south and the DMZ (the Reunification Highway) is
in better condition, with a carriageway surface good for speeds up to
about 90 km/h, and even a central reservation and a moribund services:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/recline...in/photostream

There's no fuel pumps, and all the facilities in the building are
closed, apart from the toilets, which have waterless toilets.

Local entrepreneurial women set up tables outside to sell snacks and
souvenirs to tourists.

So, do you pay them in Won or in hard currency? I wonder if it is against
the law for North Korean citizens to hold foreign currency, as it was for Soviet citizens.

Euros, I think. After North Korea's disastrous currency reform, it would
be hard to stop people holding foreign currencies.


I'm not surprised. If it's actually illegal, then the government can
likely do very little about it, particularly considering how they cocked
up in 2009.

Indeed, it wouldn't surprise me if any North Korean government action to
try and restrict citizens' hard currency holdings would be tantamount to
suicide.

On 12/05/2013 15:21, Recliner wrote:
Mizter T wrote:
On 09/05/2013 13:10, Recliner wrote:
Following the Pyongyang Metro pictures I posted, here's some I took
above ground, with a particular concentration on the over-crowded
public transport system.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/recline...7633439541991/

Pyongyang is North Korea's showpiece city, so many of the buildings
are rather smart, and the roads are wide and often tree-lined. The
roads are also quite well maintained; the standard drops the moment
you get past the police checkpoints on the city limits.

Citizens are not allowed to own cars, and cycles were also banned
until recently, so many commuters have to walk if they can't squeeze
on to the packed, battered old trams, trolley buses and diesel buses.
There are a small number of smart, modern (mainly Chinese) cars, but
you probably have to be someone fairly important to be able to travel
in one. Mobile phones are now available, but you don't yet see many
people walking along, deep in conversation. You also see very few
overweight people; most have a vigorous style of power walking.


V interesting stuff.

Do you know what the logic was in banning bicycles (until recently) in
Pyongyang? The regime fearful of the city masses having independent mobility perhaps.

I can only speculate about the cycle ban in Pyongyang, as there doesn't
seem to be any official information. It didn't apply outside the capital,
so I don't think it was about restricting mobility (which the regime does
using other means, in any case -- there are regular police road blocks on
the highways, checking that people are not moving outside their permitted
areas, and all non-residents need permission to visit Pyongyang).

I think the leaders probably wanted to avoid the third world look of
millions of shabby bikes cluttering up the elegant boulevards, as the
leaders must have observed on their regular visits in Beijing. There may
also have been an element of, "we've provided you with a Metro and plenty
of cheap buses/trams, so USE them". Also, there would have been a demand
for cycle racks both at work places and in the cramped, high rise apartment
blocks, which probably don't have room for bikes, and may not have lifts.
Finally, Pyongyang is fairly compact, so most people probably live close
enough to walk to work if necessary (particularly if they're allocated
apartments close to where they work). Separately, women were banned from
cycling throughout the country for many years, as the leader didn't like
the look of women on bikes.


Reminds me of Turkmenistan's late Saparmurat Niyazov, a.k.a.
Türkmenbaşy, who banned newscasters on Turkmen television from wearing
any make-up.

He also banned opera in the country on grounds that it was unTurkmen-like.

On 2013\05\13 21:09, wrote:

I'm not surprised. If it's actually illegal, then the government can
likely do very little about it, particularly considering how they cocked
up in 2009.

I missed that! I guess the EU's actions in Cyprus have a precedent!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_K...09_revaluation

--
Ukip - Breaking the fungus of British politics

" wrote:
On 13/05/2013 20:41, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 13/05/2013 13:08, Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2013 12:54:14 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

I have also seen some footage of freight trains in the Nampo area on
videos about the building of the Western Sea Barrier.

I have not heard of many cases where tourists have visited Nampo, I must say.

Yes, we drove along the sea barrage, saw the video in the visitor centre,
looked at the sea locks, etc. As a ship was passing through, we couldn't go
over the locks themselves. The road and railway line over the barrage
didn't seem to be heavily used.

We noticed what looked like a new comms cable being installed along the
road to the barrier. It was being done by thousands of volunteers (whose
bikes were parked along the road), hand digging a ditch and laying the
cable in it. No culvert, just the cable dropped in the probably not very
straight ditch.


I was under the impression that Nampo as a city had a strategic
importance and thus would be off limits to outsiders.

We drove right through the town centre, with no sign of any restrictions.
Also had lunch there on the way back. We saw the crowds of school leavers
ceremonially joining the military, taking pics as we went; no-one asked us
not to. I'll post some pics from the barrage (again, no restrictions on
photography). I imagine there must be a strong military presence in the
area, but we saw none. All in all, it was a pleasant day out, which
included visiting the same cooperative farm and water bottling plant that
featured in the John Sweeney Panorama programme.

On 13/05/2013 21:33, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 13/05/2013 20:41, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 13/05/2013 13:08, Recliner wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2013 12:54:14 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

I have also seen some footage of freight trains in the Nampo area on
videos about the building of the Western Sea Barrier.

I have not heard of many cases where tourists have visited Nampo, I must say.

Yes, we drove along the sea barrage, saw the video in the visitor centre,
looked at the sea locks, etc. As a ship was passing through, we couldn't go
over the locks themselves. The road and railway line over the barrage
didn't seem to be heavily used.

We noticed what looked like a new comms cable being installed along the
road to the barrier. It was being done by thousands of volunteers (whose
bikes were parked along the road), hand digging a ditch and laying the
cable in it. No culvert, just the cable dropped in the probably not very
straight ditch.


I was under the impression that Nampo as a city had a strategic
importance and thus would be off limits to outsiders.

We drove right through the town centre, with no sign of any restrictions.
Also had lunch there on the way back. We saw the crowds of school leavers
ceremonially joining the military, taking pics as we went; no-one asked us
not to. I'll post some pics from the barrage (again, no restrictions on
photography). I imagine there must be a strong military presence in the
area, but we saw none. All in all, it was a pleasant day out, which
included visiting the same cooperative farm and water bottling plant that
featured in the John Sweeney Panorama programme.

So very professional that programme was.

" wrote:
On 13/05/2013 21:33, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 13/05/2013 20:41, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 13/05/2013 13:08, Recliner wrote

All in all, it was a pleasant day out, which
included visiting the same cooperative farm and water bottling plant that
featured in the John Sweeney Panorama programme.

So very professional that programme was.

Yes, truly dreadful. It added no new info or insights, and most of the key
footage was recycled from other sources.

It came out just a little while before my Pyongyang visit, but I was in
Japan and didn't see it till I got home after the whole trip. I heard about
it while on the road, and was worried that it would queer the pitch for us,
but luckily it didn't. Our guides had heard about it, but we could honestly
say we hadn't seen it and didn't know much about it. I just hope the guides
that accompanied the LSE group didn't get into too much trouble.

Incidentally, for those that don't know, the pairs of guides who accompany
tour groups are very good. They really go out of their way to help visitors
have a good time, and not get into trouble.

On 13/05/2013 22:32, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 13/05/2013 21:33, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 13/05/2013 20:41, Recliner wrote:
" wrote:
On 13/05/2013 13:08, Recliner wrote

All in all, it was a pleasant day out, which
included visiting the same cooperative farm and water bottling plant that
featured in the John Sweeney Panorama programme.

So very professional that programme was.

Yes, truly dreadful. It added no new info or insights, and most of the key
footage was recycled from other sources.


Exactly. The programme looked like it was more about him, rather than
anything else, from where I was sitting.

"Look at me, I'm in North Korea! I'm going to find out all sorts of
insightful stuff!"