On 26/06/2013 20:29, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
In uk.transport.london message , Sun, 23
Jun 2013 12:48:16, Roland Perry posted:

In message , at 12:07:41 on
Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked:
I'm still confused by your definition of "genuine retirees". You
seemed to suggest that it could be defined as people not receiving
taxable income -- would you have an age limit as well? Or would you
only include people not receiving "income from employment"? So you'd
not allow a 70-year old part-time worker to get a twirly pass?

The normal reason for proposing such restrictions is to avoid a person
with a twirly card using it was a subsidised means to "commute to
work".


That may be what you are told. It may be what the teller believes. It
may be what the relevant management "think".

But the sensible reason is that buses are crowded with commuters until
nearly 09:30, and have empty seats after that. The social benefit of
free pensioner travel can therefore be offered from 09:30 at
comparatively little cost to the rest of society.


In London the only 09.30 limit is for National Rail.
Buses, Trams, Underground & Overground are free at all times. (I might
be wrong about the Overground)

Tony Dragon wrote:
On 26/06/2013 20:29, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
In uk.transport.london message , Sun, 23
Jun 2013 12:48:16, Roland Perry posted:

In message , at 12:07:41 on
Sun, 23 Jun 2013, Recliner remarked:
I'm still confused by your definition of "genuine retirees". You
seemed to suggest that it could be defined as people not receiving
taxable income -- would you have an age limit as well? Or would you
only include people not receiving "income from employment"? So you'd
not allow a 70-year old part-time worker to get a twirly pass?

The normal reason for proposing such restrictions is to avoid a person
with a twirly card using it was a subsidised means to "commute to
work".


That may be what you are told. It may be what the teller believes. It
may be what the relevant management "think".

But the sensible reason is that buses are crowded with commuters until
nearly 09:30, and have empty seats after that. The social benefit of
free pensioner travel can therefore be offered from 09:30 at
comparatively little cost to the rest of society.


In London the only 09.30 limit is for National Rail.
Buses, Trams, Underground & Overground are free at all times. (I might be
wrong about the Overground)

You're right in general, but there are a few NR exemptions. For example,
the Southern service from H&W to CJ is free from 9am, and some NR services
are free 24 hrs where TfL sets the fare, such as Thameslink between St
Pancras and London Bridge or Fenchurch St to Upminster. The Freedom Pass
area is generally zones 1-6, again there are some extensions, such as to
Amersham or Dartford. H&W to Watford Junction is free on the Overground,
but not on LM or Southern.