I suppose it's coincidental but threads on this group are more quickly derailed than any other.

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 05:15:49 -0700 (PDT), Offramp
wrote:

I suppose it's coincidental but threads on this group are more quickly derailed than any other.

An interesting observation. Perhaps it's because the subject area
(anything to do with transport in London) is so open ended?

In message , at 13:38:20 on
Mon, 29 Jul 2013, Recliner remarked:
I suppose it's coincidental but threads on this group are more quickly derailed than any other.

An interesting observation. Perhaps it's because the subject area
(anything to do with transport in London) is so open ended?

Difficult to keep "on track" [hint hint] you mean?
--
Roland Perry

On Monday, 29 July 2013 03:38:36 UTC-7, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 20:44:25 -0700 (PDT), e27002

wrote:



On Sunday, 28 July 2013 18:23:58 UTC-7, Recliner wrote:

e27002 wrote:



On Wednesday, 24 July 2013 15:51:50 UTC-7, Richard wrote:









It is hard to believe one was present then. These pictures are so



sickening; I almost changed my mind regarding the decline of western



civilization. Then I remembered, we had the wonderful years of



restoration during the Mulroney, Reagan, Thatcher John Paul II era.







I'm curious why you think western civilisation is declining? Isn't British



society freer, safer, healthier, longer-lived, less crime-afflicted, more



egalitarian, less-discriminatory, more integrated, and more secular than



ever? Regardless of their political complexion, British governments have



been pretty effective at moving us in the right direction. However, I'm not



sure what role, if any, Mulroney, Reagan or any pope played in this



progress.



One is not sure when Britain became the sum total Western Civilization.



I never said it was, but we were discussing pictures taken in London

in the 1980s, and so it was reasonable to look at how Britain's

changed in the last 30 years.



For crime see http://www.historytoday.com/victor-b...entury-britain



I know you like living in the past, but why post a link to an article

published some 25 years ago (and apparently based on data no newer

than 1984), when we're discussing how things have changed *since* the

1980s? Perhaps because more recent articles don't support your

thesis. For a more current analysis, see

http://www.economist.com/blogs/econo...st-explains-16
Year on year comparisons do not mean a whole lot. The long term trend is what matters. Legislation passed now becomes effective in the future, then its consequences become apparent much later as folks figure out how to comply or avoid it. There is still plenty of fallout from IR35.

A judge appointed today will be deciding case for many, many years. A new school teacher will influence generations of children.

The real measure of crime statistics is over 25, even 50 years.



Then there is the decline in communities of faith, the cheapening of human life, the rise of out of wedlock births, the disproportionate influence of deviant groups, the overwhelming rise of low brow culture, pseudo-science, the decline of honor, patriotism, and loyalty. The list goes on and on. But, you no doubt see things differently.



Yes, I will regard it as a real triumph of western civilisation when

the study of religion is confined to the history syllabus. The quicker

that 'communities of faith' disappear, the better.

One can fully understand why someone who wants an "anything goes" climate of sleaze would dislike people of conviction. How would you like to dispose of these communities? Evangelicals could be burnt at the stake, Jewish people packed into cattle trucks and sent to "resettlement" camps. Perhaps you might think beheading is appropriate for Catholics.


I certainly don't

welcome the rise of pseudo-science, but it seems to be confined mainly

to the US, with the rise of pseudo-sciences like Intelligent Design.

The statistics to support the "hockey stick" were faked in the United Kingdom.




And, as for our allies, I presume you see no advantage in the fall of our then greatest threat. Perhaps to you, Poles, East Germans, Czechs, et al do not count (They are not British after all). But, I am sure to them the Western Leadership of that period was cause for great rejoicing. Need I mention �Solidarity�.



Of course I celebrated the fall of the Soviet empire -- who wouldn't?

It's another reason to feel optimistic about the progress in western

civilisation (I just wish I'd visited more eastern European countries

just before or after the fall of the Wall, so I could better judge the

changes since then). And one consequence is that if you listen to

conversations on today's Tube trains, many are in the languages of the

countries that were once behind the iron curtain.

Yet you are so keen to see the same government interventionist policies imposed within the EU. It will not be many years before Poland has had enough and leaves.

On Monday, 29 July 2013 05:15:49 UTC-7, Offramp wrote:
I suppose it's coincidental but threads on this group are more quickly derailed than any other.

It is not appropriate to discuss why London's subway system was so bad in the 1980s?

e27002 wrote:
On Monday, 29 July 2013 05:15:49 UTC-7, Offramp wrote:
I suppose it's coincidental but threads on this group are more quickly
derailed than any other.

It is not appropriate to discuss why London's subway system was so bad in the 1980s?

Actually, London's subways can still be pretty dismal and threatening,
unlike the Underground system. That's why people often choose to cross
roads on the surface, rather than supposedly more safely by subway.

e27002 wrote:
On Monday, 29 July 2013 03:38:36 UTC-7, Recliner wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 20:44:25 -0700 (PDT), e27002

wrote:



On Sunday, 28 July 2013 18:23:58 UTC-7, Recliner wrote:

e27002 wrote:



On Wednesday, 24 July 2013 15:51:50 UTC-7, Richard wrote:









It is hard to believe one was present then. These pictures are so



sickening; I almost changed my mind regarding the decline of western



civilization. Then I remembered, we had the wonderful years of



restoration during the Mulroney, Reagan, Thatcher John Paul II era.







I'm curious why you think western civilisation is declining? Isn't British



society freer, safer, healthier, longer-lived, less crime-afflicted, more



egalitarian, less-discriminatory, more integrated, and more secular than



ever? Regardless of their political complexion, British governments have



been pretty effective at moving us in the right direction. However, I'm not



sure what role, if any, Mulroney, Reagan or any pope played in this



progress.



One is not sure when Britain became the sum total Western Civilization.



I never said it was, but we were discussing pictures taken in London

in the 1980s, and so it was reasonable to look at how Britain's

changed in the last 30 years.



For crime see http://www.historytoday.com/victor-b...entury-britain



I know you like living in the past, but why post a link to an article

published some 25 years ago (and apparently based on data no newer

than 1984), when we're discussing how things have changed *since* the

1980s? Perhaps because more recent articles don't support your

thesis. For a more current analysis, see

http://www.economist.com/blogs/econo...st-explains-16
Year on year comparisons do not mean a whole lot. The long term trend is
what matters. Legislation passed now becomes effective in the future,
then its consequences become apparent much later as folks figure out how
to comply or avoid it. There is still plenty of fallout from IR35.

I don't understand how the taxation of subcontractors could affect crime
rates.


A judge appointed today will be deciding case for many, many years. A
new school teacher will influence generations of children.

The real measure of crime statistics is over 25, even 50 years.

The Economist article, which you presumably didn't read, actually tracked
changes since the early 1980s.




Then there is the decline in communities of faith, the cheapening of
human life, the rise of out of wedlock births, the disproportionate
influence of deviant groups, the overwhelming rise of low brow culture,
pseudo-science, the decline of honor, patriotism, and loyalty. The
list goes on and on. But, you no doubt see things differently.



Yes, I will regard it as a real triumph of western civilisation when

the study of religion is confined to the history syllabus. The quicker

that 'communities of faith' disappear, the better.

One can fully understand why someone who wants an "anything goes" climate
of sleaze would dislike people of conviction. How would you like to
dispose of these communities? Evangelicals could be burnt at the stake,
Jewish people packed into cattle trucks and sent to "resettlement" camps.
Perhaps you might think beheading is appropriate for Catholics.

There speaks a typical religious bigot, who thinks everyone else should be
killed. Was it ever thus. As an atheist, it's religion I want to see die
out, through better education. I don't believe in the death penalty. And I
don't think UK taxpayer-funded schools should be run by religions. They can
indoctrinate kids, if they must, at their own expense.


I certainly don't

welcome the rise of pseudo-science, but it seems to be confined mainly

to the US, with the rise of pseudo-sciences like Intelligent Design.

The statistics to support the "hockey stick" were faked in the United Kingdom.

The was no fakery involved, and global warming remains real. But
Intelligent Design does not.




And, as for our allies, I presume you see no advantage in the fall of
our then greatest threat. Perhaps to you, Poles, East Germans, Czechs,
et al do not count (They are not British after all). But, I am sure to
them the Western Leadership of that period was cause for great
rejoicing. Need I mention �Solidarity�.



Of course I celebrated the fall of the Soviet empire -- who wouldn't?

It's another reason to feel optimistic about the progress in western

civilisation (I just wish I'd visited more eastern European countries

just before or after the fall of the Wall, so I could better judge the

changes since then). And one consequence is that if you listen to

conversations on today's Tube trains, many are in the languages of the

countries that were once behind the iron curtain.

Yet you are so keen to see the same government interventionist policies
imposed within the EU. It will not be many years before Poland has had enough and leaves.

What do you know of my views on EU policies? Pray reveal all.

Was I referring to you? [Puts down magnifying glass. Picks up meerschaum.]

On Tuesday, 30 July 2013 01:02:53 UTC-7, Recliner wrote:
e27002 wrote:

On Monday, 29 July 2013 03:38:36 UTC-7, Recliner wrote:

On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 20:44:25 -0700 (PDT), e27002



wrote:







On Sunday, 28 July 2013 18:23:58 UTC-7, Recliner wrote:



e27002 wrote:







On Wednesday, 24 July 2013 15:51:50 UTC-7, Richard wrote:



















It is hard to believe one was present then. These pictures are so







sickening; I almost changed my mind regarding the decline of western







civilization. Then I remembered, we had the wonderful years of







restoration during the Mulroney, Reagan, Thatcher John Paul II era.















I'm curious why you think western civilisation is declining? Isn't British







society freer, safer, healthier, longer-lived, less crime-afflicted, more







egalitarian, less-discriminatory, more integrated, and more secular than







ever? Regardless of their political complexion, British governments have







been pretty effective at moving us in the right direction.

I have news for you: Baroness Thatcher was a Methodist. Tony Blair was a Catholic. The closest the UK ever came to an atheist PM was when Michael Foot was elected leader of the Labour Part. But he was unelectable as PM.

However, I'm not







sure what role, if any, Mulroney, Reagan or any pope played in this







progress.







One is not sure when Britain became the sum total Western Civilization.







I never said it was, but we were discussing pictures taken in London



in the 1980s, and so it was reasonable to look at how Britain's



changed in the last 30 years.







For crime see http://www.historytoday.com/victor-b...entury-britain







I know you like living in the past, but why post a link to an article



published some 25 years ago (and apparently based on data no newer



than 1984), when we're discussing how things have changed *since* the



1980s? Perhaps because more recent articles don't support your



thesis. For a more current analysis, see



http://www.economist.com/blogs/econo...st-explains-16

Year on year comparisons do not mean a whole lot. The long term trend is

what matters. Legislation passed now becomes effective in the future,

then its consequences become apparent much later as folks figure out how

to comply or avoid it. There is still plenty of fallout from IR35.



I don't understand how the taxation of subcontractors could affect crime

rates.

It was a very pertinent demonstration of the time taken for the fallout of legislation to take effect. But, then you knew that. You were trying to be a smart Alec, and failing.




A judge appointed today will be deciding case for many, many years. A

new school teacher will influence generations of children.



The real measure of crime statistics is over 25, even 50 years.



The Economist article, which you presumably didn't read, actually tracked

changes since the early 1980s.

I read it, I wss bemused by there failure to grasp the reasons behind the fall. The effects of the Thatcher years have born fruit.

And while those US as a whole have seen crime falling, cities that remained stubbornly liberal (Detroit) have seen continual rises in crime.








Then there is the decline in communities of faith, the cheapening of

human life, the rise of out of wedlock births, the disproportionate

influence of deviant groups, the overwhelming rise of low brow culture,

pseudo-science, the decline of honor, patriotism, and loyalty. The

list goes on and on. But, you no doubt see things differently.







Yes, I will regard it as a real triumph of western civilisation when



the study of religion is confined to the history syllabus. The quicker



that 'communities of faith' disappear, the better.

You will wait a long time for Islam and Secular Humanism to disappear.



One can fully understand why someone who wants an "anything goes" climate

of sleaze would dislike people of conviction. How would you like to

dispose of these communities? Evangelicals could be burnt at the stake,

Jewish people packed into cattle trucks and sent to "resettlement" camps.

Perhaps you might think beheading is appropriate for Catholics.



There speaks a typical religious bigot, who thinks everyone else should be

killed.

Slow down punk. You were the one who suggested we needed to "die out". I certainly do not want you to "die out", use your G_d given commonsense maybe, but not "die out".

Take a long hard look in the mirror, then make a determination as to which os is the bigot.

Was it ever thus. As an atheist, it's religion I want to see die

out, through better education. I don't believe in the death penalty. And I

don't think UK taxpayer-funded schools should be run by religions. They can

indoctrinate kids, if they must, at their own expense.

Government has no business in education. If government rightly decides that there is a national interest in an educated populace, it can grant vouchers to poorer families. Each family can choose the privatized school they prefer for their own children.




I certainly don't



welcome the rise of pseudo-science, but it seems to be confined mainly



to the US, with the rise of pseudo-sciences like Intelligent Design.



The statistics to support the "hockey stick" were faked in the United Kingdom.



The was no fakery involved, and global warming remains real. But

Intelligent Design does not.


Clearly you are the on person on planet earth still in the dark on this one.. See www.climategate.com/








And, as for our allies, I presume you see no advantage in the fall of

our then greatest threat. Perhaps to you, Poles, East Germans, Czechs,

et al do not count (They are not British after all). But, I am sure to

them the Western Leadership of that period was cause for great

rejoicing. Need I mention �Solidarity�.







Of course I celebrated the fall of the Soviet empire -- who wouldn't?



It's another reason to feel optimistic about the progress in western



civilisation (I just wish I'd visited more eastern European countries



just before or after the fall of the Wall, so I could better judge the



changes since then). And one consequence is that if you listen to



conversations on today's Tube trains, many are in the languages of the



countries that were once behind the iron curtain.



Yet you are so keen to see the same government interventionist policies

imposed within the EU. It will not be many years before Poland has had enough and leaves.



What do you know of my views on EU policies? Pray reveal all.

Why are you praying? You are a atheist. You support everything else scummy, and corrupt, so I figured you are a natural for the EU. At least you have it right on that one.

A quick test: tinyurl.com/yzt859y

You failed. My time is valuable. I do not waste it on fools. Congratulations, you are kill filed. You will find plenty of other dirtbags in my kill file. Enjoy.

On Wed, 31 Jul 2013 18:45:47 -0700 (PDT), e27002
wrote:


A quick test: tinyurl.com/yzt859y

You failed. My time is valuable. I do not waste it on fools. Congratulations, you are kill filed. You will find plenty of other dirtbags in my kill file. Enjoy.

Promises, promises: this isn't the first time you've claimed to
killfile me. But don't worry -- I enjoy your posts far too much to
killfile you, so I'll continue to read and deride them.

And, BTW, picking passages from your favoured collection of fairy
stories isn't a smart way to convince an atheist that your selected
god, out of all the thousands of other invented gods, is the one to
worship. I think some of the other collections of fairy stories from
the middle east are more bloodcurdling, but just as ludicrous.