In message , at 16:44:17 on
Sun, 5 Jan 2014, Peter Masson
remarked:
The 10am northbound currently seems to be called the "Northern Lights"
and goes to Aberdeen. So will be an HST, most of which probably have 7
passenger cars. But these days there are many more other trains
between London and Scotland to catch; not just the 10am.

HSTs on East Coast are 2+9, i.e. 9 passenger cars, with only a small
part of the TGS taken up by a guard's and luggage compartment.

I was going by their apparent stock of 32 HST locos and 117 carriages
which suggests an average of 2+7.3, but looking closer they have 14
"sets", which is an average of 2+8.3

The IC225's are an average of 1+1+9.7

--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 16:44:17 -0000, "Peter Masson"
wrote:



"Roland Perry" wrote

The 10am northbound currently seems to be called the "Northern Lights" and
goes to Aberdeen. So will be an HST, most of which probably have 7
passenger cars. But these days there are many more other trains between
London and Scotland to catch; not just the 10am.

HSTs on East Coast are 2+9, i.e. 9 passenger cars, with only a small part of
the TGS taken up by a guard's and luggage compartment. Mk4 sets are 91+9
Mk4s + DVT. In Mk1 days a lot of the second class accommodation on the ECML
was in 48-seater SKs - very comfortable for those who like compartment
stock, but two Mk4s have more seats than 3 Mk1 SKs.

Peter

This puts things ito perspective. Thank you Peter.
--

http://www.991fmtalk.com/ The DMZ in Reno

On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 11:15:44 -0800 (PST), furnessvale
wrote:

On Sunday, January 5, 2014 5:20:27 PM UTC, Railsigns.co.uk wrote:
On Sunday, 5 January 2014 16:28:07 UTC, 77002 wrote:



A re-signalling program would be sanctioned. But, the department

would stipulate simpler (single lead) junction layouts. It is time to

reverse this trend.



When has the DoT/DfT ever stipulated that a specific junction must become a single lead layout?

The main reason for single lead junctions was the sudden realisation that
1-Co-Co-1 bogies would not safely pass through a 1 in 8 obtuse crossing
(diamond crossing). At that time the majority of double junctions used a 1 in 8
obtuse.

The alternatives were using a 1 in 7.5 obtuse, installing switch diamonds or
making the whole junction single leads. For cost reasons single leads were
chosen.

The DoT may not have specified it, but they had a very dead hand on the purse
strings. They were certainly very supportive of a railway management that
specified reduced capacity on the basis that railways were on the decline.

Thank you George, that was informative. I am aware that the DoT
expected some sort of "cut" for each new investment. I was not aware
of the problem with diesel bogies. Diamonds are maintenance heavy.
The new three track layouts are very effective.
--

http://www.991fmtalk.com/ The DMZ in Reno

In article ,
(Peter Masson) wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote

The 10am northbound currently seems to be called the "Northern Lights"
and goes to Aberdeen. So will be an HST, most of which probably have 7
passenger cars. But these days there are many more other trains between
London and Scotland to catch; not just the 10am.

HSTs on East Coast are 2+9, i.e. 9 passenger cars, with only a small
part of the TGS taken up by a guard's and luggage compartment. Mk4
sets are 91+9 Mk4s + DVT. In Mk1 days a lot of the second class
accommodation on the ECML was in 48-seater SKs - very comfortable for
those who like compartment stock, but two Mk4s have more seats than 3
Mk1 SKs.

48 seat Mark 1 SKs and TSOs were the exception. Most were 64-seater. My 1989
Ian Allan Combined Volume has coaching stock and tells me that SOs were
48-seaters and TSOs 64-seaters with SKs of both capacities. By then there
were few SOs or SKs.

Mk 1 & earlier Mk 2 coaches were 20.45M which means that a 12-coach train of
Mk 1s was 245M, a bit longer than 10 coaches of Mk 3 or 4 stock.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 16:44:17 on
Sun, 5 Jan 2014, Peter Masson
remarked:
The 10am northbound currently seems to be called the "Northern Lights"
and goes to Aberdeen. So will be an HST, most of which probably have 7
passenger cars. But these days there are many more other trains
between London and Scotland to catch; not just the 10am.

HSTs on East Coast are 2+9, i.e. 9 passenger cars, with only a small
part of the TGS taken up by a guard's and luggage compartment.

I was going by their apparent stock of 32 HST locos and 117 carriages
which suggests an average of 2+7.3, but looking closer they have 14
"sets", which is an average of 2+8.3

The IC225's are an average of 1+1+9.7

There are more spare HST power cars than coaching rakes, obviously. Think
about the maintenance requirements.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Sun, 5 Jan 2014 15:37:39 +0100, Robin9
wrote:

Some other examples: Victoria to Brighton; Waterloo to Portsmouth via
Guildford; Waterloo to Bournemouth & Weymouth: all used to be 12 coach
trains. They're not today.

In the early 70s I used to commute between Woking and Surbiton on 12 car
trains. In the afternoons I could see 16 car expresses heading down
through Surbiton.


--
Graham Nye
news(a)thenyes.org.uk

I'm very surprised to hear that. You're sure they were passenger-carrying
trains and not empty stock movements? I didn't know there were any
platforms sufficiently long for 16 car trains.

"Robin9" wrote in message ...


Graham Nye;140397 Wrote:

In the early 70s I used to commute between Woking and Surbiton on 12
car
trains. In the afternoons I could see 16 car expresses heading down
through Surbiton.

I'm very surprised to hear that. You're sure they were
passenger-carrying
trains and not empty stock movements? I didn't know there were any
platforms sufficiently long for 16 car trains.

I'm quite sure they weren't passenger-carrying. At the time the only
passenger trains on the SR longer than 12 coaches were some Victoria -
Dover/Folkestone Boat Trains, which had 14, including a MLV and a BG, and
the Night Ferry which could have 17 vehicles behind the loco, including
wagons-lits and fourgons. It had to use platform 2 at Victoria; the 14-car
Boat Trains could use 2 or 6.

Peter




--
Robin9

On Mon, 6 Jan 2014 16:12:44 -0000, "Peter Masson"
wrote:



"Robin9" wrote in message ...


Graham Nye;140397 Wrote:

In the early 70s I used to commute between Woking and Surbiton on 12
car
trains. In the afternoons I could see 16 car expresses heading down
through Surbiton.

I'm very surprised to hear that. You're sure they were
passenger-carrying
trains and not empty stock movements? I didn't know there were any
platforms sufficiently long for 16 car trains.

I'm quite sure they weren't passenger-carrying. At the time the only
passenger trains on the SR longer than 12 coaches were some Victoria -
Dover/Folkestone Boat Trains, which had 14, including a MLV and a BG, and
the Night Ferry which could have 17 vehicles behind the loco, including
wagons-lits and fourgons. It had to use platform 2 at Victoria; the 14-car
Boat Trains could use 2 or 6.

IIRC Back in the 1960s and 1970s Waterloo's platform 19 was about the
longest. It sat next to a former cab road that had become an area
used by the Royal Mail. I doubt that platform could accommodate more
than say 12 Mk 1s and a Western or Warship for the Exeter service.

On the Brighton side of Victoria, I recall at least one very long
platform. At the City end its opposing platform was the normal two
tracks away. At the Country end there were three tracks between the
two platforms. At some mid-point theplatform in question narrowed.
The adjacent track had a turnout to the central road.

The described platform could accommodate one very long train or two
shorter ones. A short train at the buffer end could exit thru the
center road, passing another short train at the country end. The LBSC
always was rather innovative.

--

http://www.991fmtalk.com/ The DMZ in Reno

"Aurora" wrote

On the Brighton side of Victoria, I recall at least one very long
platform. At the City end its opposing platform was the normal two
tracks away. At the Country end there were three tracks between the
two platforms. At some mid-point theplatform in question narrowed.
The adjacent track had a turnout to the central road.

The described platform could accommodate one very long train or two
shorter ones. A short train at the buffer end could exit thru the
center road, passing another short train at the country end. The LBSC
always was rather innovative.

Around 1900 the LBSCR wanted to enlarge Victoria station, but couldn't
expand sideways because of Buckingham Palace Road one side and the Chatham
station the other, so it came up with this lengthways expansion whereby
platforms 10-15 (current numbers) where lengthened into north and south
sections, with a bypass line in the south section so that trains in the
north section could arrive and depart independently. In steam days there was
a saving in light engine movements, as the loco that brought a train into
the south section could move forward and take out the train from the north
section.

After electrification these platforms could take two 8-car trains, though
passengers arriving in the rear coach of a train in the south section had a
long walk to the barrier.

More recently the need has been to enlarge the concourse, so platforms can
only take 12 coach trains. Two additional platforms were inserted where the
cab road used to be.

Peter