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OT Turkey Street and mills
At Turkey Street Station a brook flows pretty much beneath the station. Just west of the station is an extra bridge over the river, which seems to hold nothing except a small shop. I can't understand why a bridge over a brook would have been built, just so a shop can be put on it. The only thing I can think of is that the shop used to be a mill, but it doesn't look like a mill. Which makes me wonder, why are mills usually built astride the river? Obviously the waterwheels need to be in the river, but the bulk of the building could be on the shore, couldn't it? Putting the building over the river seems an unnecessary expense... after all, most rivers do not have buildings on them, except in Central London. |
OT Turkey Street and mills
Basil Jet wrote on 03 May 2014 13:06:34 ...
At Turkey Street Station a brook flows pretty much beneath the station. Just west of the station is an extra bridge over the river, which seems to hold nothing except a small shop. I can't understand why a bridge over a brook would have been built, just so a shop can be put on it. The only thing I can think of is that the shop used to be a mill, but it doesn't look like a mill. Is the shop in the original station building? According to Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_...ailway_station : "When originally built the station was on the other side of the railway bridge and a wide footbridge over the Turkey Brook led directly to the Cheshunt bound platform. This entrance was disused from the early 1970s onwards and the former station building was converted to a newsagent and general store, the footbridge was used for storage for the shop and the entrance to the actual station area had a large iron gate but was bricked up when the station was rebuilt." Which makes me wonder, why are mills usually built astride the river? Obviously the waterwheels need to be in the river, but the bulk of the building could be on the shore, couldn't it? Putting the building over the river seems an unnecessary expense... after all, most rivers do not have buildings on them, except in Central London. Although many mills are built astride the watercourse that drives the water-wheel, the main river is often partly diverted into a narrow mill race for the purpose. Building across a mill race is much easier than building across a wide river. In any case the mill contains much machinery linked to the water-wheel, and it's convenient to house it all in one building. -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
OT Turkey Street and mills
On 2014\05\03 16:26, Richard J. wrote:
Basil Jet wrote on 03 May 2014 13:06:34 ... At Turkey Street Station a brook flows pretty much beneath the station. Just west of the station is an extra bridge over the river, which seems to hold nothing except a small shop. I can't understand why a bridge over a brook would have been built, just so a shop can be put on it. The only thing I can think of is that the shop used to be a mill, but it doesn't look like a mill. Is the shop in the original station building? According to Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_...ailway_station : "When originally built the station was on the other side of the railway bridge and a wide footbridge over the Turkey Brook led directly to the Cheshunt bound platform. This entrance was disused from the early 1970s onwards and the former station building was converted to a newsagent and general store, the footbridge was used for storage for the shop and the entrance to the actual station area had a large iron gate but was bricked up when the station was rebuilt." Brilliant, that makes perfect sense. Thanks. Which makes me wonder, why are mills usually built astride the river? Obviously the waterwheels need to be in the river, but the bulk of the building could be on the shore, couldn't it? Putting the building over the river seems an unnecessary expense... after all, most rivers do not have buildings on them, except in Central London. Although many mills are built astride the watercourse that drives the water-wheel, the main river is often partly diverted into a narrow mill race for the purpose. Building across a mill race is much easier than building across a wide river. In any case the mill contains much machinery linked to the water-wheel, and it's convenient to house it all in one building. I'm not convinced... no matter how narrow a stream is, it won't normally be built over unless it's a high density urban area. And I don't see the benefit in anything much being over the waterwheel.. axles of arbitrary length can transfer the torque to a river bank site, although I suppose some energy would be lost. Good to hear from you, anyway! I think it's 3.5 years since I was at a LURS meeting. |
OT Turkey Street and mills
I'm not convinced... no matter how narrow a stream is, it won't
normally be built over unless it's a high density urban area. And I don't see the benefit in anything much being over the waterwheel.. axles of arbitrary length can transfer the torque to a river bank site, although I suppose some energy would be lost. FWIW account at one tidal mill was: a. water mills tend not to be built on solid rock[1] b. so pretty hefty foundations tend to be needed for the wheel which exerts a fair old force with vibration and all c. having built those foundations it'd be waste not to use them for the mill itself, the more so as d. when you have to make everything out of wood and what the local smith can fettle you want to keep everything in the power chain as short and simple as you can [1] obviously there are exceptions and you may be lucky enough to have a stream running through stone. Of course that may not be near good land for corn :) -- Robin reply to address is (meant to be) valid |
OT Turkey Street and mills
wrote on 03 May 2014 19:40:19 ...
In article , (Richard J.) wrote: Basil Jet wrote on 03 May 2014 13:06:34 ... At Turkey Street Station a brook flows pretty much beneath the station. Just west of the station is an extra bridge over the river, which seems to hold nothing except a small shop. I can't understand why a bridge over a brook would have been built, just so a shop can be put on it. The only thing I can think of is that the shop used to be a mill, but it doesn't look like a mill. Is the shop in the original station building? According to Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_...ailway_station : "When originally built the station was on the other side of the railway bridge and a wide footbridge over the Turkey Brook led directly to the Cheshunt bound platform. This entrance was disused from the early 1970s onwards and the former station building was converted to a newsagent and general store, the footbridge was used for storage for the shop and the entrance to the actual station area had a large iron gate but was bricked up when the station was rebuilt." Turkey Street station was closed from the First World War until the Bishop's Stortford electrification in the early 1960s, was it not? That's right. Joe Brown's London Railway Atlas shows it opening as Forty Hill when the line (Southbury Loop) was built in 1891. There was a suspension of passenger services from 1909 to 1915 and again from 1919. It was renamed as Turkey Street when it reopened in 1960. -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
OT Turkey Street and mills
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote: wrote on 03 May 2014 19:40:19 ... In article , (Richard J.) wrote: Basil Jet wrote on 03 May 2014 13:06:34 ... At Turkey Street Station a brook flows pretty much beneath the station. Just west of the station is an extra bridge over the river, which seems to hold nothing except a small shop. I can't understand why a bridge over a brook would have been built, just so a shop can be put on it. The only thing I can think of is that the shop used to be a mill, but it doesn't look like a mill. Is the shop in the original station building? According to Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_...ailway_station : "When originally built the station was on the other side of the railway bridge and a wide footbridge over the Turkey Brook led directly to the Cheshunt bound platform. This entrance was disused from the early 1970s onwards and the former station building was converted to a newsagent and general store, the footbridge was used for storage for the shop and the entrance to the actual station area had a large iron gate but was bricked up when the station was rebuilt." Turkey Street station was closed from the First World War until the Bishop's Stortford electrification in the early 1960s, was it not? That's right. Joe Brown's London Railway Atlas shows it opening as Forty Hill when the line (Southbury Loop) was built in 1891. There was a suspension of passenger services from 1909 to 1915 and again from 1919. It was renamed as Turkey Street when it reopened in 1960. When was the loop also called "Turkey St"? -- Colin Rosenstiel |
OT Turkey Street and mills
wrote on 03 May 2014 22:08:53 ...
In article , (Richard J.) wrote: wrote on 03 May 2014 19:40:19 ... In article , (Richard J.) wrote: Basil Jet wrote on 03 May 2014 13:06:34 ... At Turkey Street Station a brook flows pretty much beneath the station. Just west of the station is an extra bridge over the river, which seems to hold nothing except a small shop. I can't understand why a bridge over a brook would have been built, just so a shop can be put on it. The only thing I can think of is that the shop used to be a mill, but it doesn't look like a mill. Is the shop in the original station building? According to Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_...ailway_station : "When originally built the station was on the other side of the railway bridge and a wide footbridge over the Turkey Brook led directly to the Cheshunt bound platform. This entrance was disused from the early 1970s onwards and the former station building was converted to a newsagent and general store, the footbridge was used for storage for the shop and the entrance to the actual station area had a large iron gate but was bricked up when the station was rebuilt." Turkey Street station was closed from the First World War until the Bishop's Stortford electrification in the early 1960s, was it not? That's right. Joe Brown's London Railway Atlas shows it opening as Forty Hill when the line (Southbury Loop) was built in 1891. There was a suspension of passenger services from 1909 to 1915 and again from 1919. It was renamed as Turkey Street when it reopened in 1960. When was the loop also called "Turkey St"? When I said "It was renamed as Turkey Street", I was referring to the station (originally Forty Hill), not the loop. No idea if that name was ever given to the loop. -- Richard J. (to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address) |
OT Turkey Street and mills
On 2014\05\03 18:43, Robin wrote:
I'm not convinced... no matter how narrow a stream is, it won't normally be built over unless it's a high density urban area. And I don't see the benefit in anything much being over the waterwheel.. axles of arbitrary length can transfer the torque to a river bank site, although I suppose some energy would be lost. FWIW account at one tidal mill was: a. water mills tend not to be built on solid rock[1] b. so pretty hefty foundations tend to be needed for the wheel which exerts a fair old force with vibration and all c. having built those foundations it'd be waste not to use them for the mill itself, the more so as d. when you have to make everything out of wood and what the local smith can fettle you want to keep everything in the power chain as short and simple as you can [1] obviously there are exceptions and you may be lucky enough to have a stream running through stone. Of course that may not be near good land for corn :) Thanks! Really glad I asked now! |
OT Turkey Street and mills
In article ,
(Richard J.) wrote: wrote on 03 May 2014 22:08:53 ... In article , (Richard J.) wrote: wrote on 03 May 2014 19:40:19 ... In article , (Richard J.) wrote: Basil Jet wrote on 03 May 2014 13:06:34 ... At Turkey Street Station a brook flows pretty much beneath the station. Just west of the station is an extra bridge over the river, which seems to hold nothing except a small shop. I can't understand why a bridge over a brook would have been built, just so a shop can be put on it. The only thing I can think of is that the shop used to be a mill, but it doesn't look like a mill. Is the shop in the original station building? According to Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey_...ailway_station : "When originally built the station was on the other side of the railway bridge and a wide footbridge over the Turkey Brook led directly to the Cheshunt bound platform. This entrance was disused from the early 1970s onwards and the former station building was converted to a newsagent and general store, the footbridge was used for storage for the shop and the entrance to the actual station area had a large iron gate but was bricked up when the station was rebuilt." Turkey Street station was closed from the First World War until the Bishop's Stortford electrification in the early 1960s, was it not? That's right. Joe Brown's London Railway Atlas shows it opening as Forty Hill when the line (Southbury Loop) was built in 1891. There was a suspension of passenger services from 1909 to 1915 and again from 1919. It was renamed as Turkey Street when it reopened in 1960. When was the loop also called "Turkey St"? When I said "It was renamed as Turkey Street", I was referring to the station (originally Forty Hill), not the loop. No idea if that name was ever given to the loop. I've more than once heard the loop given alternative names of "Southbury Loop" and "Turkey St Loop". It was re-opened at a time when the general trend was closures. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
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