London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

This might seem to be a silly question, but here goes:-

SWMBO & I took a Thames Cruise yesterday from Gravesend to Chelsea &
on the return trip noted two red d/deckers coming off the Woolwich
Ferry at North Woolwich.

They used the middle lanes on the boat & seemed to have enough
headroom, so it just night be a regular occurance, but we were
wondering why said busses would use the ferry rather than a bridge or
tunnel?


DC

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London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

They used the middle lanes on the boat & seemed to have enough
headroom, so it just night be a regular occurance, but we were
wondering why said busses would use the ferry rather than a bridge or
tunnel?

Only speculating but if you want to get a double decker across the
Thames for service in E London the ferry is a good deal easier than
driving to Tower Bridge or Dartford crossing? (Blackwall is OK
Southbound IIRC for a stock DD but def. not Northbound in the old bore.)

IIRC much more common in days of yore (before the Dartford tunnel) when
buses on daytrips from E London headed Sarf.

--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

On 08/05/2014 16:03, Paul Corfield wrote:
[...]
I recently used the Free Ferry for the first time ever - rather a nice
way to get across even though it was a tad breezy when I did it. There
are convenient bus links at either side of the Thames.


Mildly surprised to hear that!

There's such an abundance of space for foot passengers on the ferries, I
wonder if the passenger deck has ever been remotely full up, bearing in
mind the existence of the foot tunnel (and much more recently the DLR link).

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

I have discovered that the 474 bus uses the free ferry. Any other buses? I'm thinking of making the journey now!

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

So I suppose those buses seen on the ferry were running light.

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

On Friday, 9 May 2014 15:46:47 UTC+1, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 9 May 2014 00:49:14 -0700 (PDT), Offramp

wrote:



So I suppose those buses seen on the ferry were running light.



Yes - MOT runs, garage transfers or possibly driver training. When I

used the ferry there was a single decker driver training bus waiting

for the ferry at Woolwich.

Do any bus routes go under or over the river by QEII Bridge or Blackwall Tunnel or any Ferry?

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

In message , at
06:25:54 on Sat, 10 May 2014, Offramp remarked:

Do any bus routes go under or over the river by QEII Bridge

http://www.ensignbus.com/route-x80.html

or Blackwall Tunnel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Buses_route_108

or any Ferry?

What other vehicle ferries are there? According to wikipedia the car
ferry at Dartford ceased when the tunnel opened.
--
Roland Perry

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

On Saturday, 10 May 2014 14:39:12 UTC+1, Roland Perry wrote:

Do any bus routes go under or over the river by QEII Bridge

http://www.ensignbus.com/route-x80.html

or Blackwall Tunnel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Buses_route_108

or any Ferry?

What other vehicle ferries are there? According to wikipedia the car

ferry at Dartford ceased when the tunnel opened.

Thanks for those.
My knowledge of ferries is very limited.

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

In article ,
(Paul Corfield) wrote:

On Sat, 10 May 2014 06:25:54 -0700 (PDT), Offramp
wrote:

On Friday, 9 May 2014 15:46:47 UTC+1, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 9 May 2014 00:49:14 -0700 (PDT), Offramp

wrote:

So I suppose those buses seen on the ferry were running light.

Yes - MOT runs, garage transfers or possibly driver training. When I
used the ferry there was a single decker driver training bus waiting
for the ferry at Woolwich.

Do any bus routes go under or over the river by QEII Bridge or Blackwall
Tunnel or any Ferry?

The 108, from Stratford to Lewisham, goes through the Blackwall
Tunnel. It has to use single deckers because of the clearances in the
northbound tunnel.

Ensignbus's X81 uses the Dartford Crossing to run between Chafford
Hundred and Bluewater.

No bus services use ferries across the Thames.

In times past there was a minibus operated route through the
Rotherhithe Tunnel (P14 then 395) but TfL withdrew the 395 without
replacement. Width restrictions have been added since then which make
bus operation impossible through the Rotherhithe.

Others can add in the older history of LT bus operation through the
tunnels if they wish.

Perhaps what's needed is a heritage operation through the Rotherhithe tunnel
with RTs? :-)

--
Colin Rosenstiel

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

Paul Corfield wrote on 10 May 2014 20:10:50 ...
On Sat, 10 May 2014 06:25:54 -0700 (PDT), Offramp
wrote:

On Friday, 9 May 2014 15:46:47 UTC+1, Paul Corfield wrote:
On Fri, 9 May 2014 00:49:14 -0700 (PDT), Offramp

wrote:



So I suppose those buses seen on the ferry were running light.



Yes - MOT runs, garage transfers or possibly driver training. When I

used the ferry there was a single decker driver training bus waiting

for the ferry at Woolwich.

Do any bus routes go under or over the river by QEII Bridge or Blackwall Tunnel or any Ferry?

The 108, from Stratford to Lewisham, goes through the Blackwall
Tunnel. It has to use single deckers because of the clearances in the
northbound tunnel.

Ensignbus's X81 uses the Dartford Crossing to run between Chafford
Hundred and Bluewater.

No bus services use ferries across the Thames.

In times past there was a minibus operated route through the
Rotherhithe Tunnel (P14 then 395) but TfL withdrew the 395 without
replacement. Width restrictions have been added since then which make
bus operation impossible through the Rotherhithe.

Others can add in the older history of LT bus operation through the
tunnels if they wish.

From 1927 to 1951, the 108 through the Blackwall Tunnel (two-way
traffic in the original bore in those days) used special-bodied
double-deckers with "domed" roofs (reduced height at the sides) and
tyres with steel-reinforced walls to cope with the frequent rubbing
against the kerb that was necessary to pass other traffic. Initially NS
and later STL. Standard STL and RTL/RT buses were used from 1951 to
1968, LT having persuaded the police that special bodies weren't really
necessary.

I didn't realise that after the 2nd bore was opened in 1967, they raised
the carriageway level in the old bore in order to provide more width,
which reduced the available height and prevented use of double deckers
when it reopened. More details at
http://www.red-rf.com/single-deck_ro...enary_run.aspx
--
Richard J.
(to email me, swap 'uk' and 'yon' in address)

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

On 2014\05\10 22:20, Richard J. wrote:

From 1927 to 1951, the 108 through the Blackwall Tunnel (two-way
traffic in the original bore in those days) used special-bodied
double-deckers with "domed" roofs (reduced height at the sides)

Both sides or just the left side?

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

In message , at 20:10:50 on
Sat, 10 May 2014, Paul Corfield remarked:
Others can add in the older history of LT bus operation through the
tunnels if they wish.

There's plenty about buses and Blackwall/Rotherhithe Tunnels online.

Here's a rather rarer Dartford-related shot:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7030/6...a289d44278.jpg
--
Roland Perry

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

In message , at 23:16:50 on
Sat, 10 May 2014, Basil Jet remarked:
From 1927 to 1951, the 108 through the Blackwall Tunnel (two-way
traffic in the original bore in those days) used special-bodied
double-deckers with "domed" roofs (reduced height at the sides)

Both sides or just the left side?

http://dewi.ca/trains/london/pix/n21_4_6.jpg

(Both).
--
Roland Perry

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

Both sides or just the left side?

Both (as shown in the link Richard J. posted). Left side only would
have made it impossible to pass a broken down vehicle.
--
Robin
reply to address is (meant to be) valid

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 20:10:50
on Sat, 10 May 2014, Paul Corfield remarked:
Others can add in the older history of LT bus operation through the
tunnels if they wish.

There's plenty about buses and Blackwall/Rotherhithe Tunnels online.

Here's a rather rarer Dartford-related shot:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7030/6...a289d44278.jpg

I thought a shot like that was in one of my old bus spotting books but i
can't find one.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

The photo shows one of the three Thames Trader-based buses used by the Dartford Tunnel Joint Committee to convey cyclists and their mounts through the tunnel. This was a free on-demand service and there were special docking stations at each end of the tunnel (then single bore). The buses were operated and maintained by LT but owned by the DTJC (Essex & Kent CCs).

Estimates of the number of cyclists using the tunnel (pre-M25 of course) were hopelessly optimistic and the buses saw little use. They were withdrawn and cycles henceforth carried on trailers pulled by the Land-Rovers normally used to escort fuel tankers through the tunnel.

I believe one of the Thames buses (TT-class) is owned/preserved by a certain Managing Director - Surface Transport, TfL.

~~~

Another short-lived service was the LT Country Area route 399 (Dartford-Grays). Numbering this obviously caused head-scratching at 55 Broadway in view of the convention that country routes north of the river were (mostly) numbered in the 3xx series and south of the river in the 4xx series.

~~~

The longest-lived and best known route through the tunnel was Dr Heffernan's Thames Weald service between Romford and Sevenoaks (and variations).

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

In article ,
(DRH) wrote:

The photo shows one of the three Thames Trader-based buses used by
the Dartford Tunnel Joint Committee to convey cyclists and their
mounts through the tunnel. This was a free on-demand service and
there were special docking stations at each end of the tunnel (then
single bore). The buses were operated and maintained by LT but owned
by the DTJC (Essex & Kent CCs).

Estimates of the number of cyclists using the tunnel (pre-M25 of
course) were hopelessly optimistic and the buses saw little use. They
were withdrawn and cycles henceforth carried on trailers pulled by
the Land-Rovers normally used to escort fuel tankers through the
tunnel.

I believe one of the Thames buses (TT-class) is owned/preserved by a
certain Managing Director - Surface Transport, TfL.

~~~

Another short-lived service was the LT Country Area route 399
(Dartford-Grays). Numbering this obviously caused head-scratching at
55 Broadway in view of the convention that country routes north of
the river were (mostly) numbered in the 3xx series and south of the
river in the 4xx series.

~~~

The longest-lived and best known route through the tunnel was Dr
Heffernan's Thames Weald service between Romford and Sevenoaks (and
variations).

Thanks for enlightening us. I wondered what happened to the cycle service.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

On Sun, 11 May 2014 11:26:05 -0700 (PDT), DRH
wrote:

The photo shows one of the three Thames Trader-based buses used by the Dartford Tunnel Joint Committee to convey cyclists and their mounts through the tunnel. This was a free on-demand service and there were special docking stations at each end of the tunnel (then single bore). The buses were operated and maintained by LT but owned by the DTJC (Essex & Kent CCs).

Estimates of the number of cyclists using the tunnel (pre-M25 of course) were hopelessly optimistic and the buses saw little use. They were withdrawn and cycles henceforth carried on trailers pulled by the Land-Rovers normally used to escort fuel tankers through the tunnel.

I believe one of the Thames buses (TT-class) is owned/preserved by a certain Managing Director - Surface Transport, TfL.

~~~

Another short-lived service was the LT Country Area route 399 (Dartford-Grays). Numbering this obviously caused head-scratching at 55 Broadway in view of the convention that country routes north of the river were (mostly) numbered in the 3xx series and south of the river in the 4xx series.

~~~

The longest-lived and best known route through the tunnel was Dr Heffernan's Thames Weald service between Romford and Sevenoaks (and variations).


I've used the Ford buses to get to / from Kent, when I belonged to a
cycling club in the early '60's.

As for the former 399, I'd expect it to be a useful route if it was
running now, as a Thurrock Resident I do use the Ensign X1 & the
Gravesend Ferry when I don't need to driver over.

DC

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London Red D/Deckers on the Woolwich Ferry?
 

On 10/05/2014 20:10, Paul Corfield wrote:

The 108, from Stratford to Lewisham, goes through the Blackwall
Tunnel. It has to use single deckers because of the clearances in the
northbound tunnel.


In the "good old days" the 108 ran from Bromley-by-Bow to Crystal
Palace, with specially designed STLs with domed roofs and reinforced
tyres for going through the tunnel (now the northbound, then the only one).

Peter Beale