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Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
This is outside of London but as the Abbey flyer is discussed I am sure this
can be. The Government has just announced an additional £50 m on top of the £130 m already agreed. Ten years ago I was staggered at the £60 m estimate and now the project cost is £180 m. This can only be about a mile or railway, 2 stations and a viaduct. I don't think even HS2 is that much per mile and they will have to cost in the trains. Does anybody know why this project is so expensive? Kevin This week, the Government announced an extra £50million to take the Croxley Rail Link to its next phase. The funding is in addition to the £130million already committed to the project. The new funding was awarded after I met with officials in the Department for Transport, Communities Minister Greg Clark MP and TfL to make sure the project was kept on schedule. After campaigning in Parliament, I can now confirm that the rail link is completely financed and will move forward to the construction phase with work soon starting on the two new stations. The Croxley Rail Link is one of my key priorities for Watford and after decades of slow progress, I am delighted that it is finally to become a reality. The project will link Watford Junction to the Metropolitan Line, with new train stations being built at Vicarage Road and Ascot Road. This will improve access to Watford General Hospital, the football club, local business parks and thousands of homes. Watford Junction Redevelopment Campaign This week in Parliament, I called for the complete redevelopment of Watford Junction Station to become a priority for the Government and Network Rail. This will ensure the station is ready for increased passenger numbers and new services. Watford is a significant transport hub and we need the infrastructure to match this. Rail use has doubled in the last decade and with the Government investing so heavily in Watford transport by backing the Croxley Rail Link, this rise looks set to continue. We now need to look at what we can do to improve capacity at the stations as well as on the lines and this means completely redeveloping Watford Junction. The Station forecourt was re-designed less than two years ago, but has been plagued with problems with drop off and pick up of passengers, arrangements for taxis and pedestrian safety. I have pushed for these issues to be tackled as soon as possible, but feel a long-term plan for the station is needed. I am meeting with the Communities Minister, the Department of Transport, Network Rail and other key stakeholders to look at the redevelopment of the station. I hope to report back soon and would like to hear your views so please get in touch. Kind regards, Richard Harrington MP |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
"Kevin" wrote:
This is outside of London but as the Abbey flyer is discussed I am sure this can be. The Government has just announced an additional £50 m on top of the £130 m already agreed. Ten years ago I was staggered at the £60 m estimate and now the project cost is £180 m. This can only be about a mile or railway, 2 stations and a viaduct. I don't think even HS2 is that much per mile and they will have to cost in the trains. Does anybody know why this project is so expensive? There may only be a mile or so of all-new railway, but altogether it's nearer to 3.5 miles, including the reopened section and two new stations. But, yes, it does sound like a lot for what is really quite a simple project. Maybe it wouldn't have taken so long to get approval had it been more affordable? Obviously some of the cost will be for upgrading the DC line that's shared with the Overground, including work at the existing High St and Junction stations. |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
2 stations and a viaduct.
Two viaducts or major bridges. No provision appears to have been made for reinstatement when Ascot Road was build. |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
"Recliner" wrote in message
... "Kevin" wrote: This is outside of London but as the Abbey flyer is discussed I am sure this can be. The Government has just announced an additional £50 m on top of the £130 m already agreed. Ten years ago I was staggered at the £60 m estimate and now the project cost is £180 m. This can only be about a mile or railway, 2 stations and a viaduct. I don't think even HS2 is that much per mile and they will have to cost in the trains. Does anybody know why this project is so expensive? There may only be a mile or so of all-new railway, but altogether it's nearer to 3.5 miles, including the reopened section and two new stations. But, yes, it does sound like a lot for what is really quite a simple project. Maybe it wouldn't have taken so long to get approval had it been more affordable? Obviously some of the cost will be for upgrading the DC line that's shared with the Overground, including work at the existing High St and Junction stations. According to this the new Lea Bridge station will cost £6.5 million. Lets be generous and say the 2 new stations will £15 million. That will put re-instating the line, the viaduct, upgrading High St to Watford Junc at £165 million. I also understand that Watford Met will be retained as sidings so add a junction with the deviation. Anybody know how long phase 1 of the East London Line was and that came in at £1 billion. Something doesn't add up in my mind. Kevin |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
"Kevin" wrote:
"Recliner" wrote in message ... "Kevin" wrote: This is outside of London but as the Abbey flyer is discussed I am sure this can be. The Government has just announced an additional £50 m on top of the £130 m already agreed. Ten years ago I was staggered at the £60 m estimate and now the project cost is £180 m. This can only be about a mile or railway, 2 stations and a viaduct. I don't think even HS2 is that much per mile and they will have to cost in the trains. Does anybody know why this project is so expensive? There may only be a mile or so of all-new railway, but altogether it's nearer to 3.5 miles, including the reopened section and two new stations. But, yes, it does sound like a lot for what is really quite a simple project. Maybe it wouldn't have taken so long to get approval had it been more affordable? Obviously some of the cost will be for upgrading the DC line that's shared with the Overground, including work at the existing High St and Junction stations. According to this the new Lea Bridge station will cost £6.5 million. Lets be generous and say the 2 new stations will £15 million. That will put re-instating the line, the viaduct, upgrading High St to Watford Junc at £165 million. I also understand that Watford Met will be retained as sidings so add a junction with the deviation. Anybody know how long phase 1 of the East London Line was and that came in at £1 billion. Something doesn't add up in my mind. Please could you use a proper newsreader, so your comments don't get mixed with the ones you're responding to? The Lea Bridge station is a reopening, using the existing platforms. A better comparison might be the all-new station at Southend Airport, which cost £16m in 2011. Allowing for inflation, the new stations for 8-car trains might cost £20m apiece, plus a few million each to upgrade two existing stations, so the stations probably account for ~£50m. As for the line, the new non-electrified Bacon Factory chord cost £59 for a 1.2km line, while the 2km, electrified single track Hitchin flyover cost £47m. By those standards, building the new 4.5km Croxley line, and upgrading the shared DC line to Watford Junction could be expected to cost upwards of £100m. According to table 3.2 in this document http://www.croxleyraillink.com/media...n%20report.pdf The works are described as: • 4.5km of new railway track, signalling and structures; • 0.4km embankment and viaduct over Watford Road, Grand Union Canal and River Gade linking the Metropolitan Line and the Croxley Green Branch; • New stations at Ascot Road and Watford General Hospital; • Refurbishment of station at Watford High Street; • Refurbishment of Cardiff Road, Ascot Road and River Colne underbridges; and • Maintenance of Tolpits Lane, Vicarage Road and Wiggenhall Road overbridges. - Construction and engineering costs: £133m - Land, additional vehicles, public enquiry: £19.1m - Risk allowance: £19.9m - TOTAL £172m |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
On 2014\07\11 21:53, Recliner wrote:
the new non-electrified Bacon Factory chord cost £59 for a 1.2km line Bargain! |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2014\07\11 21:53, Recliner wrote: the new non-electrified Bacon Factory chord cost £59 for a 1.2km line Bargain! Oops! Bells prices, of course. |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
According to this the new Lea Bridge station will cost £6.5 million. The Lea Bridge station is a reopening, using the existing platforms. A better comparison might be the all-new station at Southend Airport, which cost £16m in 2011. These prices are insane. How could reinstating Lea Bridge station on land which is presumably still owned by the railway cost as much as buying 14 average London houses and the land they stand on? Southend Airport station is quite nice with its enclosed footbridge and lifts on both sides, but how could it cost as much as 78 average Southend houses and the land they stand on? Somebody is getting very rich here, and I bet it isn't the men with bricks in their hands. |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
Basil Jet wrote:
According to this the new Lea Bridge station will cost £6.5 million. The Lea Bridge station is a reopening, using the existing platforms. A better comparison might be the all-new station at Southend Airport, which cost £16m in 2011. These prices are insane. How could reinstating Lea Bridge station on land which is presumably still owned by the railway cost as much as buying 14 average London houses and the land they stand on? Southend Airport station is quite nice with its enclosed footbridge and lifts on both sides, but how could it cost as much as 78 average Southend houses and the land they stand on? Somebody is getting very rich here, and I bet it isn't the men with bricks in their hands. Yes, I know, these prices are astonishing, if routine these days. It's why NR brought in modular stations, and Chiiltern decided to build Warwick Parkway itself, for much less than NR said it would cost: "The managing director of Chiltern Trains, on BBC's Panorama, had asked Network Rail to quote for a new station for Warwick Parkway. Network Rail said it would cost £13 million. The managing director thought this was a lot of money. He went to the train companies and the station was built for £5.5 million." From: http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.u...#ixzz37EvFsA00 I don't know if TfL is any more efficient at building new stations than NR. I think one aspect that's particularly expensive in this country is to build new stations on in-service lines, so the two all-new stations on the Croxley line should be cheaper than they would be if the line were already in use. |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
These prices are insane. How could reinstating Lea Bridge station on
land which is presumably still owned by the railway cost as much as buying 14 average London houses and the land they stand on? Perhaps start by costing in the passenger lifts? Adding them to an old station can easily cost around a million with ancillary works included. -- Robin reply to address is (meant to be) valid |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
"Robin" wrote:
These prices are insane. How could reinstating Lea Bridge station on land which is presumably still owned by the railway cost as much as buying 14 average London houses and the land they stand on? Perhaps start by costing in the passenger lifts? Adding them to an old station can easily cost around a million with ancillary works included. Yes, I assume all new stations have to be "accessible", meaning step-free access to all platforms? There are also presumably more stringent rules about access roads, bus stops, etc. |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
In message
, at 15:53:32 on Fri, 11 Jul 2014, Recliner remarked: The Lea Bridge station is a reopening, using the existing platforms. A better comparison might be the all-new station at Southend Airport, which cost £16m in 2011. East Midlands Airport station cost £25m and Cambridge Northstowe Parkway (officially called "Science Park") is going to cost £26m. Common features are that each have one platform plus one island, large car parks and new access roads, and are built on out-of-town brown field sites. The costs are therefore consistent with Southend Airport. -- Roland Perry |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 15:53:32 on Fri, 11 Jul 2014, Recliner remarked: The Lea Bridge station is a reopening, using the existing platforms. A better comparison might be the all-new station at Southend Airport, which cost £16m in 2011. East Midlands Airport station cost £25m and Cambridge Northstowe Parkway (officially called "Science Park") is going to cost £26m. Common features are that each have one platform plus one island, large car parks and new access roads, and are built on out-of-town brown field sites. The costs are therefore consistent with Southend Airport. Presumably they needed new track work to accommodate three platform faces? That would certainly push the costs up, compared to new stations that just have facing platforms on to existing tracks. |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
In message
, at 04:03:05 on Sat, 12 Jul 2014, Recliner remarked: The Lea Bridge station is a reopening, using the existing platforms. A better comparison might be the all-new station at Southend Airport, which cost £16m in 2011. East Midlands Airport station cost £25m and Cambridge Northstowe Parkway (officially called "Science Park") is going to cost £26m. Common features are that each have one platform plus one island, large car parks and new access roads, and are built on out-of-town brown field sites. The costs are therefore consistent with Southend Airport. Presumably they needed new track work to accommodate three platform faces? In both cases the track was there before - the two fast and two slow lines through EMD (I misremembered - there's actually three platforms although one is much shorter), and the two fast and one siding/loop at Science Park. But a certain amount of re-positioning to fit the island platform is no doubt required in both cases. -- Roland Perry |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 11:18:27 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote: In message , at 04:03:05 on Sat, 12 Jul 2014, Recliner remarked: The Lea Bridge station is a reopening, using the existing platforms. A better comparison might be the all-new station at Southend Airport, which cost £16m in 2011. East Midlands Airport station cost £25m and Cambridge Northstowe Parkway (officially called "Science Park") is going to cost £26m. Common features are that each have one platform plus one island, large car parks and new access roads, and are built on out-of-town brown field sites. The costs are therefore consistent with Southend Airport. Presumably they needed new track work to accommodate three platform faces? In both cases the track was there before - the two fast and two slow lines through EMD (I misremembered - there's actually three platforms although one is much shorter), and the two fast and one siding/loop at Science Park. But a certain amount of re-positioning to fit the island platform is no doubt required in both cases. Yes, the track would have to be slewed for sure to fit the island platform in. Were new points and crossovers needed as well? That would increase not just the track, but also the signalling cost. Obviously the large car park and access road pushes up costs, too. |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
Robin wrote:
These prices are insane. How could reinstating Lea Bridge station on land which is presumably still owned by the railway cost as much as buying 14 average London houses and the land they stand on? Perhaps start by costing in the passenger lifts? Adding them to an old station can easily cost around a million with ancillary works included. Mitcham easfileds cost £6m (so Lea Bridge seems cheap) and oer 1m was for the footbridge and lift http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/modular-station-opens-this-month.html Corby cost £8.3m http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corby_railway_station#Design_and_construction although wiki implies there was road and car park building as well -- Mark |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 11:51:56 +0100, (Mark Bestley)
wrote: Robin wrote: These prices are insane. How could reinstating Lea Bridge station on land which is presumably still owned by the railway cost as much as buying 14 average London houses and the land they stand on? Perhaps start by costing in the passenger lifts? Adding them to an old station can easily cost around a million with ancillary works included. Mitcham easfileds cost £6m (so Lea Bridge seems cheap) and over £1m was for the footbridge and lift http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/modular-station-opens-this-month.html Corby cost £8.3m http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corby_railway_station#Design_and_construction although wiki implies there was road and car park building as well Mitcham Eastfields dates from about six years ago, so inflation would make the costs much more than£6.5m for Lea Bridge today. And that's even with the modular buildings which are supposed to cut costs. |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
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Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
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Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
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Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 12:23:34 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote: On 2014\07\12 12:18, wrote: Does Southend Airport station have a bay platform? I thought it was just platforms constructed alongside existing tracks, with no track alterations required? You are right. Which should be the cheapest option, though I assume there would still need to be signalling work. |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
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Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
In article ,
(Recliner) wrote: On Sat, 12 Jul 2014 12:23:34 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: On 2014\07\12 12:18, wrote: Does Southend Airport station have a bay platform? I thought it was just platforms constructed alongside existing tracks, with no track alterations required? You are right. Which should be the cheapest option, though I assume there would still need to be signalling work. Yes. One strength of the Cambridge Science Park plans is the re-use of the St Ives branch exit signal which has been retained with no track alongside. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
In message , at 11:51:56 on
Sat, 12 Jul 2014, Mark Bestley remarked: Corby cost £8.3m One platform on a single line, and famously at the time they didn't do hardly anything to the signalling of what was a lightly used freight-only line, resulting in all sorts of operational headaches. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corby_railway_station#Design_and_construction although wiki implies there was road and car park building as well It does have a car park (60 spaces), but it's all pretty close to the existing road, and the station building is quite modest. -- Roland Perry |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
In message , at 11:40:56 on
Sat, 12 Jul 2014, Recliner remarked: East Midlands Airport station cost £25m and Cambridge Northstowe Parkway (officially called "Science Park") is going to cost £26m. Common features are that each have one platform plus one island, large car parks and new access roads, and are built on out-of-town brown field sites. The costs are therefore consistent with Southend Airport. Presumably they needed new track work to accommodate three platform faces? In both cases the track was there before - the two fast and two slow lines through EMD (I misremembered - there's actually three platforms although one is much shorter), and the two fast and one siding/loop at Science Park. But a certain amount of re-positioning to fit the island platform is no doubt required in both cases. Yes, the track would have to be slewed for sure to fit the island platform in. Were new points and crossovers needed as well? Not as far as I know. -- Roland Perry |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
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Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
The Lea Bridge station is a reopening, using the existing platforms. A better comparison might be the all-new station at Southend Airport, which cost £16m in 2011. Allowing for inflation, the new stations for 8-car trains might cost £20m apiece, plus a few million each to upgrade two existing stations, so the stations probably account for ~£50m. They are very expensive platforms then. |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
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Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
In message , at 11:33:32
on Mon, 14 Jul 2014, David Cantrell remarked: A certain amount of the track work and signalling already exists for Cambridge Science Park's bay platform, perhaps surprisingly. They are left overs of the former St Ives branch, including what will become the starting signal(!). I would be shocked if any of it was still usable barring the odd bit of conduit here and there. The last train ran over 20 years ago according to t'interweb. You are probably looking at the records for the line to St Ives. The new station is being built on the old Chesterton Sidings, which continues to have aggregates traffic to the Lafarges site. -- Roland Perry |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
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Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
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Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 09:34:54 on Mon, 14 Jul 2014, remarked: A certain amount of the track work and signalling already exists for Cambridge Science Park's bay platform, perhaps surprisingly. They are left overs of the former St Ives branch, including what will become the starting signal(!). I would be shocked if any of it was still usable barring the odd bit of conduit here and there. The last train ran over 20 years ago accordingto t'interweb. You are probably looking at the records for the line to St Ives. The new station is being built on the old Chesterton Sidings, which continues to have aggregates traffic to the Lafarges site. Neither. The St Ives exit signal has been maintained and remains on the Cambridge panel. I've seen it with my own eyes. I'm not sure I understand. Is there a St Ives exit signal from the sidings area as well as signals allowing entry into the sidings area? For the station you'd only need the latter. It's what's left of Chesterton Junction and will become the bay platform starter, AIUI. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
wrote in message ... In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: In message , at 09:34:54 on Mon, 14 Jul 2014, remarked: A certain amount of the track work and signalling already exists for Cambridge Science Park's bay platform, perhaps surprisingly. They are left overs of the former St Ives branch, including what will become the starting signal(!). I would be shocked if any of it was still usable barring the odd bit of conduit here and there. The last train ran over 20 years ago accordingto t'interweb. You are probably looking at the records for the line to St Ives. The new station is being built on the old Chesterton Sidings, which continues to have aggregates traffic to the Lafarges site. Neither. The St Ives exit signal has been maintained and remains on the Cambridge panel. I've seen it with my own eyes. I'm not sure I understand. Is there a St Ives exit signal from the sidings area as well as signals allowing entry into the sidings area? For the station you'd only need the latter. It's what's left of Chesterton Junction and will become the bay platform starter, AIUI. And in the latest news - delayed by lizards on the line http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News...0616052135.htm yes I know it's a month old for locals, but the national news has only just caught up :-) tim |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
In article ,
(tim.....) wrote: wrote in message ... In article , (Roland Perry) wrote: In message , at 09:34:54 on Mon, 14 Jul 2014, remarked: A certain amount of the track work and signalling already exists for Cambridge Science Park's bay platform, perhaps surprisingly. They are left overs of the former St Ives branch, including what will become the starting signal(!). I would be shocked if any of it was still usable barring the odd bit of conduit here and there. The last train ran over 20 years ago accordingto t'interweb. You are probably looking at the records for the line to St Ives. The new station is being built on the old Chesterton Sidings, which continues to have aggregates traffic to the Lafarges site. Neither. The St Ives exit signal has been maintained and remains on the Cambridge panel. I've seen it with my own eyes. I'm not sure I understand. Is there a St Ives exit signal from the sidings area as well as signals allowing entry into the sidings area? For the station you'd only need the latter. It's what's left of Chesterton Junction and will become the bay platform starter, AIUI. And in the latest news - delayed by lizards on the line http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News...-homes-before- 30-million-rail-station-in-Cambridge-can-be-built-20140616052135.htm yes I know it's a month old for locals, but the national news has only just caught up :-) Something I read this week said they had been successfully rehomed. -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
In message , at 08:52:46 on Tue, 15
Jul 2014, tim..... remarked: It's what's left of Chesterton Junction and will become the bay platform starter, AIUI. And in the latest news - delayed by lizards on the line http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News...-from-homes-be fore-30-million-rail-station-in-Cambridge-can-be-built-20140616052135.htm Has the price really gone up to £30m - it was £26m last time I looked, and only £21m back in 2011. -- Roland Perry |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
In message , at 03:26:01
on Tue, 15 Jul 2014, remarked: http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News...-homes-before- 30-million-rail-station-in-Cambridge-can-be-built-20140616052135.htm yes I know it's a month old for locals, but the national news has only just caught up :-) Something I read this week said they had been successfully rehomed. Buzzphrase error! "translocated" -- Roland Perry |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote: In message , at 03:26:01 on Tue, 15 Jul 2014, remarked: http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News...m-homes-before -30-million-rail-station-in-Cambridge-can-be-built-20140616052135.htm yes I know it's a month old for locals, but the national news has only just caught up :-) Something I read this week said they had been successfully rehomed. Buzzphrase error! "translocated" Pardon me for using the wrong phrasebook! -- Colin Rosenstiel |
Croxley rail link additioanl funding.
On Sun, 13 Jul 2014 13:14:57 +0100, "Kevin"
wrote: The Lea Bridge station is a reopening, using the existing platforms. A better comparison might be the all-new station at Southend Airport, which cost £16m in 2011. Allowing for inflation, the new stations for 8-car trains might cost £20m apiece, plus a few million each to upgrade two existing stations, so the stations probably account for ~£50m. They are very expensive platforms then. Slightly more than platforms, as I'm sure you already know: http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/new..._tube_station/ |
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