wrote:
In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

On Thu, 6 Nov 2014 21:12:31 +0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Richard wrote:

BTW I'm sure I've seen -- well, experienced in the form of a "reboot"
-- the pan go down at Farringdon s/b. This was on an Electrostar,
maybe they're different?

How recently? I thought they'd switched to City Thameslink a few months
ago. I'm pretty sure I've noticed it there on a 377.

A month, maybe? And quite a regular observation, although not every
time by any means.

I suppose the other question is in which direction? Are they switching at
different locations Northbound and Southbound?

Yes, I wondered about that, but from my observations, it's the same both
ways (ie, City Thameslink).

In article

rg, (Recliner) wrote:

wrote:
In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

On Thu, 6 Nov 2014 21:12:31 +0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Richard wrote:

BTW I'm sure I've seen -- well, experienced in the form of a "reboot"
-- the pan go down at Farringdon s/b. This was on an Electrostar,
maybe they're different?

How recently? I thought they'd switched to City Thameslink a few
months ago. I'm pretty sure I've noticed it there on a 377.

A month, maybe? And quite a regular observation, although not every
time by any means.

I suppose the other question is in which direction? Are they
switching at different locations Northbound and Southbound?

Yes, I wondered about that, but from my observations, it's the same both
ways (ie, City Thameslink).

I wonder why some trains change at Farringdon then?

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote in message
...
In article

rg, (Recliner) wrote:

wrote:
In article ,
(Richard) wrote:


I suppose the other question is in which direction? Are they
switching at different locations Northbound and Southbound?

Yes, I wondered about that, but from my observations, it's the same both
ways (ie, City Thameslink).

I wonder why some trains change at Farringdon then?


I thought it was panto up at CTK and down at ZFD, the idea being that it's
easier to reverse or (at CTK) dispose of a train to the sidings in the event
of problems with the changeover. I don't think any of the crossovers or
sidings at/adjacent to CTK are wired, which will influence the decision.
There are times when CTK is closed so I imagine it's easier to do the
changeover at ZFD.

--
DAS

wrote:
In article

, (Recliner) wrote:

wrote:
In article ,
(Richard) wrote:

On Thu, 6 Nov 2014 21:12:31 +0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

Richard wrote:

BTW I'm sure I've seen -- well, experienced in the form of a "reboot"
-- the pan go down at Farringdon s/b. This was on an Electrostar,
maybe they're different?

How recently? I thought they'd switched to City Thameslink a few
months ago. I'm pretty sure I've noticed it there on a 377.

A month, maybe? And quite a regular observation, although not every
time by any means.

I suppose the other question is in which direction? Are they
switching at different locations Northbound and Southbound?

Yes, I wondered about that, but from my observations, it's the same both
ways (ie, City Thameslink).

I wonder why some trains change at Farringdon then?

Dunno. Maybe they are expected to keep up to speed with changes at both
stations?

On 2014\11\07 10:16, Recliner wrote:
wrote:

I wonder why some trains change at Farringdon then?

Dunno. Maybe they are expected to keep up to speed with changes at both
stations?

The plan in the TL2000 documents was to do all changeovers at City
instead of Farringdon, because the dual-electrified sidings at City can
be used to get trains with pantographs stuck up or down out of the way
of the other trains. Farringdon of course used to have the
dual-electrified Moorgate Branch as a place to hide trains with stuck
pantographs, but lost that when the platforms were extended over the
junction (which I presume has happened by now), so I'd be very surprised
if any trains were still changing power at Farringdon.

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2014\11\07 10:16, Recliner wrote:
wrote:

I wonder why some trains change at Farringdon then?

Dunno. Maybe they are expected to keep up to speed with changes at both
stations?

The plan in the TL2000 documents was to do all changeovers at City
instead of Farringdon, because the dual-electrified sidings at City can
be used to get trains with pantographs stuck up or down out of the way of
the other trains. Farringdon of course used to have the dual-electrified
Moorgate Branch as a place to hide trains with stuck pantographs, but
lost that when the platforms were extended over the junction (which I
presume has happened by now), so I'd be very surprised if any trains were
still changing power at Farringdon.

The Moorgate City Widened line closed almost five years ago!

On 2014\11\07 13:12, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2014\11\07 10:16, Recliner wrote:
wrote:

I wonder why some trains change at Farringdon then?

Dunno. Maybe they are expected to keep up to speed with changes at both
stations?

The plan in the TL2000 documents was to do all changeovers at City
instead of Farringdon, because the dual-electrified sidings at City can
be used to get trains with pantographs stuck up or down out of the way of
the other trains. Farringdon of course used to have the dual-electrified
Moorgate Branch as a place to hide trains with stuck pantographs, but
lost that when the platforms were extended over the junction (which I
presume has happened by now), so I'd be very surprised if any trains were
still changing power at Farringdon.

The Moorgate City Widened line closed almost five years ago!

The line closed, yes, but I'm not sure exactly when the Farringdon
platforms were extended over the tracks. I've used the Underground very
rarely in the last 10 years.

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2014\11\07 13:12, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2014\11\07 10:16, Recliner wrote:
wrote:

I wonder why some trains change at Farringdon then?

Dunno. Maybe they are expected to keep up to speed with changes at both
stations?

The plan in the TL2000 documents was to do all changeovers at City
instead of Farringdon, because the dual-electrified sidings at City can
be used to get trains with pantographs stuck up or down out of the way of
the other trains. Farringdon of course used to have the dual-electrified
Moorgate Branch as a place to hide trains with stuck pantographs, but
lost that when the platforms were extended over the junction (which I
presume has happened by now), so I'd be very surprised if any trains were
still changing power at Farringdon.

The Moorgate City Widened line closed almost five years ago!

The line closed, yes, but I'm not sure exactly when the Farringdon
platforms were extended over the tracks. I've used the Underground very
rarely in the last 10 years.

The junction was removed immediately, and the lengthened platforms have
been in use for most of those five years.

In article

rg, (Recliner) wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2014\11\07 10:16, Recliner wrote:
wrote:

I wonder why some trains change at Farringdon then?

Dunno. Maybe they are expected to keep up to speed with changes at both
stations?

The plan in the TL2000 documents was to do all changeovers at City
instead of Farringdon, because the dual-electrified sidings at City can
be used to get trains with pantographs stuck up or down out of the way
of the other trains. Farringdon of course used to have the
dual-electrified Moorgate Branch as a place to hide trains with stuck
pantographs, but lost that when the platforms were extended over the
junction (which I presume has happened by now), so I'd be very surprised
if any trains were still changing power at Farringdon.

Are the City Thameslink sidings new? They're not in my atlas either. I don't
remember seeing anything last time I went there.

The Moorgate City Widened line closed almost five years ago!

And anyway the Moorgate City Widened lines were overhead 25KV AC electrified
only.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

wrote in message
...
In article

rg, (Recliner) wrote:

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2014\11\07 10:16, Recliner wrote:
wrote:

I wonder why some trains change at Farringdon then?

Dunno. Maybe they are expected to keep up to speed with changes at
both
stations?

The plan in the TL2000 documents was to do all changeovers at City
instead of Farringdon, because the dual-electrified sidings at City can
be used to get trains with pantographs stuck up or down out of the way
of the other trains. Farringdon of course used to have the
dual-electrified Moorgate Branch as a place to hide trains with stuck
pantographs, but lost that when the platforms were extended over the
junction (which I presume has happened by now), so I'd be very
surprised
if any trains were still changing power at Farringdon.

Are the City Thameslink sidings new?

No, I meant Smithfield sidings, between CTK and ZFD. I think there are still
some sidings south of Blackfriars that could also be used to 'lose' a train
that refuses to change to AC. Note that all the sidings are DC only, so any
train that refuses to accept DC has to be reversed via CTK and sent back
north.

I found the following in

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/226361/trsp-manufacture-and-supply-agreement-with-schedules.pdf

(details for the supply of new rolling stock from Siemens)

[quote]
2.4.3.1 Proposed Arrangements
All service trains are expected to stop at both City Thameslink and
Farringdon stations
in both directions. Hence the proposed arrangements are that during normal
operation
southbound trains will change over from AC to DC during the stop at
Farringdon, while
northbound trains will change over from DC to AC during the stop at City
Thameslink.
If a southbound train is unable to take traction on DC but can continue on
AC the train
will work forward to City Thameslink where passengers will be de-trained.
The train will then reverse and return north as empty stock on AC (or pick
up a timetable working
from Farringdon).

If a northbound train is unable to take traction on AC but can continue on
DC
passengers will be detrained at City Thameslink. The train will then be
worked forward
to Smithfield Sidings (subject to an 8-car limit) or to Farringdon to
reverse via the
crossover and return south as empty stock on DC (or pick up a timetable
working from
City Thameslink).
[END QUOTE]

I would have thought any train that refuses AC could be reversed via the
crossover at the south end of CTK, rather than at Farringdon.

--
DAS