Overground speed - or lack thereof
 

On Saturday, 22 November 2014 17:45:30 UTC, Basil Jet wrote:
On 2014\11\22 15:49, Mark wrote:
On Saturday, 22 November 2014 11:01:54 UTC, wrote:
Punctuality and reliability are highly valued by passengers even if

Its supposed to be a turn up and go metro service. I doubt anyone seriously
checks the timetable beforehand. So long as trains turn up every 3 or 4
minutes thats all that matters.

It isn't though, passengers to/from the southern branches seem to treat it as a timetabled
service on the whole - at my local station (Norwood Junction) the bulk of passengers in the
morning peak turn up just before the train. It might be only 4tph but equally spaced at the
same times all day so it's easy for people to get used to the times, which helps.

For much of the week, the trains to and from Crystal Palace and Croydon
follow each other on and off the main section instead of being about 7
minutes apart with the New Cross and Clapham trains between them. So
anyone commuting between, say Brockley and Wapping has a very bunched
service. Was that really the only way to fit the trains in?

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cm...-timetable.pdf

As far as I understand it from what was said when it was introduced, yes. It required massive service
changes on the London Bridge - Croydons - beyond route to accommodate the Overground timetable,
and presumably a clockface timetable on the individual branches was a goal.

Stations beyond West Croydon lost their stopping services to London Bridge and their semi-fast services
other than a handful in the peaks. Many services via West Croydon were diverted to the fast lines
between Norwood and London Bridge (resulting in the pretty odd situation that Norwood Junction has
a better service to London Bridge between the peaks than in peak - 6tph fast and 2tph stopping)
Likewise stations south of London Bridge now have a poor direct service to East Croydon. Two of
the 6tph (Horsham via Gatwick) have since been changed to make a stop a New Cross Gate as a
slight improvement to that (with another benefit that the original ELL stations are now a single
change from Gatwick)

The losers were definitely passengers from south of the Croydons wanting the intermediate stops, and
passengers from those intermediate stops travelling south of Croydon.

Overground speed - or lack thereof
 

On Sunday, 23 November 2014 01:27:50 UTC, Mark wrote:
As far as I understand it from what was said when it was introduced, yes. It required massive service
changes on the London Bridge - Croydons - beyond route to accommodate the Overground timetable,
and presumably a clockface timetable on the individual branches was a goal.

(And Sydenham - New Cross Gate is 12tph - at a very even pattern too - which must be close to the realistic maximum for the line I'd have thought? If I remember right from when I lived there that's
double the service there was before London Overground)

Overground speed - or lack thereof
 

On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 07:49:27 -0800 (PST)
Mark wrote:
On Saturday, 22 November 2014 11:01:54 UTC, wrote:
Well its detered me. If I continue on the victoria and change at green
park to the jubilee it almost always gets me to canada water quicker than
the ELL even though its a much longer distance.

But with the inconvenience of the not very convenient change at Green Park.

TBH the walk from the victoria to the jubilee at green park isn't that much
further than from the victoria to the ELL at highbury.

I thought that too and that the ELL "extensions" were a white elephant -
creating a fake "new" service. I was wrong though, and the passenger
numbers seem to prove there was a latent demand there. I rarely use it
myself but the trains are standing only at Norwood Junction in the mornings,
and rammed by the time they get to the old ELL.

Strange. I wonder where they're all going. Hipsters commuting to/from shorditch
or Hoxton?

--
Spud

Overground speed - or lack thereof
 

On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 11:01:52AM +0000, d wrote:

Its supposed to be a turn up and go metro service. I doubt anyone seriously
checks the timetable beforehand. So long as trains turn up every 3 or 4
minutes thats all that matters.

They don't. They turn up every fifteen minutes, with a load of trains
going to places I don't care about in between.

--
David Cantrell | A machine for turning tea into grumpiness

Sobol's Law of Telecom Utilities:
Telcos are malicious; cablecos are simply clueless.

Overground speed - or lack thereof
 

On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 12:32:45 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 11:01:52AM +0000, d wrote:

Its supposed to be a turn up and go metro service. I doubt anyone seriously
checks the timetable beforehand. So long as trains turn up every 3 or 4
minutes thats all that matters.

They don't. They turn up every fifteen minutes, with a load of trains
going to places I don't care about in between.

Oh well, serves you right for living south of the river!

--
Spud

Overground speed - or lack thereof
 

On 2014-11-24 09:49:37 +0000, d said:

Strange. I wonder where they're all going. Hipsters commuting to/from shorditch
or Hoxton?

Shoreditch High Street is right by the square mile - it's an obvious
way to get to a lot of offices. Likewise changing at Shadwell and
Canada Water gets you both east and west. And Highbury is very busy
with the interchange to the Victoria line.

E.

Overground speed - or lack thereof
 

On 2014\11\22 15:49, Mark wrote:

I thought that too and that the ELL "extensions" were a white elephant -
creating a fake "new" service. I was wrong though, and the passenger
numbers seem to prove there was a latent demand there. I rarely use it
myself but the trains are standing only at Norwood Junction in the mornings,
and rammed by the time they get to the old ELL.

Maybe they could stick an extra couple of carriages on the back... the
trains are walk-though, after all.

Incidentally, I was on an S stock recently going through Mansion House,
I think, and messages appeared on the LED display warning that the rear
door would not open. However, I could see that the same message was
appearing on the displays all the way through the train. It seems lazy
to me that they tell people in the front carriage that the rear door
won't open.

Overground speed - or lack thereof
 

On 2014-11-24 18:25:35 +0000, Basil Jet said:

Incidentally, I was on an S stock recently going through Mansion House,
I think, and messages appeared on the LED display warning that the rear
door would not open. However, I could see that the same message was
appearing on the displays all the way through the train. It seems lazy
to me that they tell people in the front carriage that the rear door
won't open.

The design element I'd change there is that the visual indication at
the door of "door out of use" does not display until the release is
pressed, whereas it'd be more useful if it appeared on departure from
the previous station.

Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.

Overground speed - or lack thereof
 

Basil Jet wrote:
On 2014\11\22 15:49, Mark wrote:

I thought that too and that the ELL "extensions" were a white elephant -
creating a fake "new" service. I was wrong though, and the passenger
numbers seem to prove there was a latent demand there. I rarely use it
myself but the trains are standing only at Norwood Junction in the mornings,
and rammed by the time they get to the old ELL.

Maybe they could stick an extra couple of carriages on the back... the
trains are walk-though, after all.

I think they'd be more useful in the middle than the end! Actually, all
the 378s are bing lengthened to five cars, starting now; the first 5-car
unit has just been delivered. Short platform lengths at some stations limit
future lengthening.

Overground speed - or lack thereof
 

In article , (Basil Jet)
wrote:

On 2014\11\22 15:49, Mark wrote:

I thought that too and that the ELL "extensions" were a white elephant -
creating a fake "new" service. I was wrong though, and the passenger
numbers seem to prove there was a latent demand there. I rarely use it
myself but the trains are standing only at Norwood Junction in the
mornings, and rammed by the time they get to the old ELL.

Maybe they could stick an extra couple of carriages on the back...
the trains are walk-though, after all.

That makes it considerably harder to just "stick an extra couple of
carriages on the back" of course. With the equipment shared between
carriages and distributed through modern trains the days of such simple
shunting are long gone.

--
Colin Rosenstiel