On 21.12.14 10:41, Robin9 wrote:
'Paul Corfield[_2_ Wrote:
;146210']

Despite the downturn from 2008 rail demand has held up pretty well and
especially so in London. This is contrary to the experience of
previous economic dips so something else has changed in the transport
or employment markets to cause this. I'm not sure anyone has yet got
definitive proof of what did change and why.

--
Paul C

What has changed are the cost of motoring and the traffic situation in
London.

The rising cost of petrol and diesel and the falling levels of
prosperity mean
that many people with "normal" jobs can not afford to travel by car in
the
light hearted way they used to. Young people in particular cannot afford
the
crippling rates of car insurance and, in sharp contrast to twenty five
years
ago, many young people do not aspire to have a car.

TfL sabotaging of the roads of London has turned Central London into one

large traffic jam and many motorists, including myself, are very
reluctant to
drive into "the middle." By the way, as I drive a Toyota Prius, I do not
pay the
Central London Road Tax.




I'm generally loathe to go into Central London, particularly at this
time of year -- retail and tourist hell.

In article , () wrote:

On 21.12.14 10:41, Robin9 wrote:
'Paul Corfield[_2_ Wrote:

Despite the downturn from 2008 rail demand has held up pretty well and
especially so in London. This is contrary to the experience of
previous economic dips so something else has changed in the transport
or employment markets to cause this. I'm not sure anyone has yet got
definitive proof of what did change and why.

What has changed are the cost of motoring and the traffic situation in
London.

The rising cost of petrol and diesel and the falling levels of
prosperity mean that many people with "normal" jobs can not afford to
travel by car in the light hearted way they used to. Young people in
particular cannot afford the crippling rates of car insurance and, in
sharp contrast to twenty five years ago, many young people do not aspire
to have a car.

TfL sabotaging of the roads of London has turned Central London into one
large traffic jam and many motorists, including myself, are very
reluctant to drive into "the middle." By the way, as I drive a Toyota
Prius, I do not pay the Central London Road Tax.

I wonder where you have been for the last 20 years. It's been hell for over
a decade for well over a decade. I always hated having to take the car from
Cambridge to my Putney. Whatever the time it took longer to get across
London than to get from Cambridge to Tower Bridge.

I'm generally loathe to go into Central London, particularly at this
time of year -- retail and tourist hell.

True.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

I've been in London for the past 20 years - and a lot longer than that. I have
observed how the roads situation changed markedly since that black day in
London's history when we had a Mayor. Prior to that, the situation on the
roads was improving as the Department Of Transport introduced Red Routes
and set about making major structural improvements, for example the A12
extension through Wanstead and Leytonstone.

Since the Red Routes and overall planning were handed over to TfL, the
situation has been reversed and we now have far greater traffic congestion
and air pollution despite fewer people using their cars.

On Sat, 20 Dec 2014 20:54:16 +0000
Paul Corfield wrote:
I don't think that is quite fair. There is no evidence whatsoever that
anyone concluded that the line would not be popular. Clearly the
design of the new stations is such that decent volumes of passengers
were expected. What has caught people out is the rate of increase

What about the designs of the trains? Outer suburban/cross country style trains
were never going to be suitable however they laid the seats out. Obviously it
was cheaper to just use a similar design rather than bite the bullet and use
the S Stock which I'm sure could have been fairly easily converted to 3rd rail
if they couldn't do 4th rail beyond new cross for whatever reason.

It is also the case that the Hoxton and Shoreditch area has developed
in a way and at a speed that was not anticipated. Who predicted you
would get a lot of tech start ups near Old St and Shoreditch? Anyone?

There have been tech companies in old street for well over a decade. Its only
the media who have cottoned on only recently.

especially so in London. This is contrary to the experience of
previous economic dips so something else has changed in the transport
or employment markets to cause this. I'm not sure anyone has yet got
definitive proof of what did change and why.

London has pretty much escaped the economic dip. Its a different story in
the rest of the country though naturally the chattering Guardian reading
classes and the BBC ponces rarely visit anywhere outside the M25 unless its
media city in manchester so its not mentioned in the news.

I appreciate you just want to lambast tfl and the Overground because
you face a crowded journey compared to using your car. Therefore

I no longer care. I tried the overground once more last week and it was
the usual crush loading to highbury with almost empty trains that terminated
at dalston. So now I just don't bother. The vic+jubilee lines might be just
as packed but they're a damn site faster.

--
Spud

On Sun, 21 Dec 2014 11:41:02 +0100
Robin9 wrote:
The rising cost of petrol and diesel and the falling levels of

I think you mean the falling cost of petrol and diesel. Recently anyway.

crippling rates of car insurance and, in sharp contrast to twenty five
years
ago, many young people do not aspire to have a car.

They aspire to have the latest shiny iToy packed full of fisher price style
apps instead. Its a generation of kidults. The insurance rates are absurd
though I'll agree.

TfL sabotaging of the roads of London has turned Central London into one

large traffic jam and many motorists, including myself, are very
reluctant to
drive into "the middle." By the way, as I drive a Toyota Prius, I do not
pay the
Central London Road Tax.

Well lets be honest , no sane person drives into central london in the rush
hour unless they're a trade or they've been banned from public transport.
It takes twice as long, the constant stop start knackers engines and
transmissions and there's nowhere to park anyway. Much as I like driving my
car and get ****ed off by the tube I would never even consider commuting to
work by car.

--
Spud