On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:55:57 +0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
"If you touch in on a yellow card reader to make a journey and
then decide you don't want to make it or you can't because of
service disruption and touch out again to exit your Oyster card
will be charged. We apply charges to discourage fare evasion.
However, you may be able to get a refund if this happens."

The burden here is far too much on the innocent traveller.

Yes, I agree. They really ought to be able to tweak the algorithm to stop
charging in cases where people exit within, say, ten minutes.

Can anyone spot the teeny problem there? No?

Touch in, go through gate, touch out on exit gate to get refund but don't go
through it and happily travel for free - assuming you don't get caught by a
revenue patrol and can get out the other end of course.

They used to allow it years ago, and I know that because I did it once or
twice.

--
Spud

wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:55:57 +0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
"If you touch in on a yellow card reader to make a journey and
then decide you don't want to make it or you can't because of
service disruption and touch out again to exit your Oyster card
will be charged. We apply charges to discourage fare evasion.
However, you may be able to get a refund if this happens."

The burden here is far too much on the innocent traveller.

Yes, I agree. They really ought to be able to tweak the algorithm to stop
charging in cases where people exit within, say, ten minutes.

Can anyone spot the teeny problem there? No?

Touch in, go through gate, touch out on exit gate to get refund but don't go
through it and happily travel for free - assuming you don't get caught by a
revenue patrol and can get out the other end of course.

They used to allow it years ago, and I know that because I did it once or
twice.

I bow to your superior, first-hand knowledge of this specialist topic.

In article , d
() wrote:

On Fri, 13 Feb 2015 08:55:57 +0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote:
"If you touch in on a yellow card reader to make a journey and
then decide you don't want to make it or you can't because of
service disruption and touch out again to exit your Oyster card
will be charged. We apply charges to discourage fare evasion.
However, you may be able to get a refund if this happens."

The burden here is far too much on the innocent traveller.

Yes, I agree. They really ought to be able to tweak the algorithm to stop
charging in cases where people exit within, say, ten minutes.

Can anyone spot the teeny problem there? No?

Touch in, go through gate, touch out on exit gate to get refund but
don't go through it and happily travel for free - assuming you don't
get caught by a revenue patrol and can get out the other end of
course.

They used to allow it years ago, and I know that because I did it
once or twice.

Which is why in-out-in again within a reasonable time should be handled
automatically as oyster-rail.org.uk implies but the TfL site is silent on.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 04:08:00AM -0600, wrote:
In article , d
() wrote:
Touch in, go through gate, touch out on exit gate to get refund but
don't go through it and happily travel for free - assuming you don't
get caught by a revenue patrol and can get out the other end of
course.
Which is why in-out-in again within a reasonable time should be handled
automatically as oyster-rail.org.uk implies but the TfL site is silent on.

And it's in-out-in that I did. Perhaps one of our resident fare-dodging
experts can enlighten me about how a train-load of people could have
abused that, cos I can't figure it out myself.

--
David Cantrell | Godless Liberal Elitist

Hail Caesar! Those about to vi ^[ you!

In message , at 09:35:41 on Fri, 13 Feb
2015, d remarked:
"If you touch in on a yellow card reader to make a journey and
then decide you don't want to make it or you can't because of
service disruption and touch out again to exit your Oyster card
will be charged. We apply charges to discourage fare evasion.
However, you may be able to get a refund if this happens."

The burden here is far too much on the innocent traveller.

Yes, I agree. They really ought to be able to tweak the algorithm to stop
charging in cases where people exit within, say, ten minutes.

Can anyone spot the teeny problem there? No?

Touch in, go through gate, touch out on exit gate to get refund but don't go
through it and happily travel for free - assuming you don't get caught by a
revenue patrol and can get out the other end of course.

In that case they need to cancel the original touch in/out if you touch
in again within say half an hour. If the disruption is so bad you decide
to change stations, they should allow you to do a pseudo touch-in on any
of the ticket machines.
--
Roland Perry

In article , (Roland Perry)
wrote:

In message , at 09:35:41 on Fri, 13
Feb 2015, d remarked:
"If you touch in on a yellow card reader to make a journey and
then decide you don't want to make it or you can't because of
service disruption and touch out again to exit your Oyster
card will be charged. We apply charges to discourage fare
evasion. However, you may be able to get a refund if this
happens."

The burden here is far too much on the innocent traveller.

Yes, I agree. They really ought to be able to tweak the algorithm to
stop charging in cases where people exit within, say, ten minutes.

Can anyone spot the teeny problem there? No?

Touch in, go through gate, touch out on exit gate to get refund but don't
go through it and happily travel for free - assuming you don't get caught
by a revenue patrol and can get out the other end of course.

In that case they need to cancel the original touch in/out if you
touch in again within say half an hour. If the disruption is so bad
you decide to change stations, they should allow you to do a pseudo
touch-in on any of the ticket machines.

Which, according to oyster-rail.org.uk (but not TfL's own web site) is
something like what happens.

It would be nice if there was an official way of confirming what should
happen.

--
Colin Rosenstiel

In message , at 05:16:19
on Fri, 13 Feb 2015, remarked:
Can anyone spot the teeny problem there? No?

Touch in, go through gate, touch out on exit gate to get refund but don't
go through it and happily travel for free - assuming you don't get caught
by a revenue patrol and can get out the other end of course.

In that case they need to cancel the original touch in/out if you
touch in again within say half an hour. If the disruption is so bad
you decide to change stations, they should allow you to do a pseudo
touch-in on any of the ticket machines.

Which, according to oyster-rail.org.uk (but not TfL's own web site) is
something like what happens.

It would be nice if there was an official way of confirming what should
happen.

Lack of transparency is a long term complaint that I (and others) have
with TfL's fares policy. Of course, this would never have happened if
they'd been re-nationalised. (Oh.. wait...)
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 11:40:00AM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

Lack of transparency is a long term complaint that I (and others) have
with TfL's fares policy. Of course, this would never have happened if
they'd been re-nationalised. (Oh.. wait...)

I don't think that the problem is lack of transparency. The problem is
that the fare structure is too complex for any normal person to
remember.

--
David Cantrell | Hero of the Information Age

Wow, my first sigquoting! I feel so special now!
-- Dan Sugalski

On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 13:02:49 +0000
David Cantrell wrote:
On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 11:40:00AM +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

Lack of transparency is a long term complaint that I (and others) have
with TfL's fares policy. Of course, this would never have happened if
they'd been re-nationalised. (Oh.. wait...)

I don't think that the problem is lack of transparency. The problem is
that the fare structure is too complex for any normal person to
remember.

I've said it before , I'll say it again - flat fares. Works in NYC, Moscow
and dozens of other systems so no reason it can't work here. Christ, even our
buses are a flat fare so its not like its unprecedented.

--
Spud

In message , David
Cantrell writes
Lack of transparency is a long term complaint that I (and others) have
with TfL's fares policy. Of course, this would never have happened if
they'd been re-nationalised. (Oh.. wait...)

I don't think that the problem is lack of transparency. The problem is
that the fare structure is too complex for any normal person to
remember.

It's both; and as a result even an abnormal person hasn't got enough
information to understand it.
--
Roland Perry