http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-31729316

Yes, it made the front page of The Standard and their leader column. Not having
been there, I don't know how bad it was or by how much everything has been
exaggerated.

Was anyone there, taking their life in their hands?

Paul Corfield wrote:

I wasn't there and have never been there during rush hour on the
current station layout. However the various photo images that have
been sprayed in the media over the weeks show a station completely
jammed full with people pressed up against the gatelines *and* people
queuing outside the station too.

Allowing a station to get to the point where there is no circulation
space is really rather daft. Even LU at its most overloaded stations
seem to do a bit better than that in that two way flows in and out
remain possible.

Some weeks earlier I used London Bridge in the evening peak but travelling
against the tide and it was pretty lousy then on an average evening. There
were few clear signs to direct incoming passengers to the correct gates and
then once through them it was "Fight your way through the crowd to either
the exit or the tube escalators" - and these are two distinct destinations
on such a busy concourse with all the consequences for having to cut
through - and so that just adds to congestion and frustration. Outgoing
passengers were all just piling up on the concourse with no idea at all
which platforms their trains would depart from. There was no attempt to
encourage some space around the barriers or to make it easy to move around.

Notably the platforms themselves looked very empty unless they had a train
in them and the system had declared its destination. There didn't seem to be
any cases of people awaiting a train on the platform itself, either due to
altered patterns or the info system adopting a "don't tell until the driver
is in the outward cab" approach. Great for incoming passengers who don't
have to fight their way off the train itself but it just adds to the scrum
to get to a train with only a few minutes' warning.

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"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:
Paul Corfield wrote:

I wasn't there and have never been there during rush hour on the
current station layout. However the various photo images that have
been sprayed in the media over the weeks show a station completely
jammed full with people pressed up against the gatelines *and* people
queuing outside the station too.

Allowing a station to get to the point where there is no circulation
space is really rather daft. Even LU at its most overloaded stations
seem to do a bit better than that in that two way flows in and out
remain possible.

Some weeks earlier I used London Bridge in the evening peak but travelling
against the tide and it was pretty lousy then on an average evening. There
were few clear signs to direct incoming passengers to the correct gates and
then once through them it was "Fight your way through the crowd to either
the exit or the tube escalators" - and these are two distinct destinations
on such a busy concourse with all the consequences for having to cut
through - and so that just adds to congestion and frustration. Outgoing
passengers were all just piling up on the concourse with no idea at all
which platforms their trains would depart from. There was no attempt to
encourage some space around the barriers or to make it easy to move around.

Notably the platforms themselves looked very empty unless they had a train
in them and the system had declared its destination. There didn't seem to be
any cases of people awaiting a train on the platform itself, either due to
altered patterns or the info system adopting a "don't tell until the driver
is in the outward cab" approach. Great for incoming passengers who don't
have to fight their way off the train itself but it just adds to the scrum
to get to a train with only a few minutes' warning.

I think one reason for the latter is that the current low-level bay
platforms are quite narrow, so they don't want departing pax filling them
too soon. It can be a real scrum when a packed 12-car train arrives, and
there are departing pax waiting on the platform.

Recliner wrote:

Notably the platforms themselves looked very empty unless they had a
train
in them and the system had declared its destination. There didn't seem to
be
any cases of people awaiting a train on the platform itself, either due
to
altered patterns or the info system adopting a "don't tell until the
driver
is in the outward cab" approach. Great for incoming passengers who don't
have to fight their way off the train itself but it just adds to the
scrum
to get to a train with only a few minutes' warning.

I think one reason for the latter is that the current low-level bay
platforms are quite narrow, so they don't want departing pax filling them
too soon. It can be a real scrum when a packed 12-car train arrives, and
there are departing pax waiting on the platform.

I can't say I took a tape measure with me but I didn't the platforms were
especially narrow apart from around the steps up to the bridge. At the
mainline terminuses I'm most used to at peak hours, Waterloo and Liverpool
Street, you often get people waiting on the platform itself and you can get
a turnaround. And London Bridge evening arrivals are not noticeably packed.

Clearly no solution is optimum but my instinct is that if people could await
trains on the platforms themselves then they'd be more likely to catch them,
reducing scrums as everyone tries to get through in a short space of time
and overcrowding on the concourse as people who missed their train now have
to wait for the next one and fight to be in the best position to get out.
That concourse is simply not working at present and other solutions are
wilder like only operating shuttles to and from, say, East Croydon.

--
My blog: http://adf.ly/4hi4c

"Tim Roll-Pickering" wrote:
Recliner wrote:

Notably the platforms themselves looked very empty unless they had a
train
in them and the system had declared its destination. There didn't seem to
be
any cases of people awaiting a train on the platform itself, either due
to
altered patterns or the info system adopting a "don't tell until the
driver
is in the outward cab" approach. Great for incoming passengers who don't
have to fight their way off the train itself but it just adds to the
scrum
to get to a train with only a few minutes' warning.

I think one reason for the latter is that the current low-level bay
platforms are quite narrow, so they don't want departing pax filling them
too soon. It can be a real scrum when a packed 12-car train arrives, and
there are departing pax waiting on the platform.

I can't say I took a tape measure with me but I didn't the platforms were
especially narrow apart from around the steps up to the bridge. At the
mainline terminuses I'm most used to at peak hours, Waterloo and Liverpool
Street, you often get people waiting on the platform itself and you can get
a turnaround. And London Bridge evening arrivals are not noticeably packed.

"Platforms 10 and 15 are narrowed to allow work to continue behind the
hoardings. It might take you longer to get off your train and pass through
the gates during the morning rush hour/morning peak."

From http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/london-bridge/

Recliner wrote:

I can't say I took a tape measure with me but I didn't the platforms were
especially narrow apart from around the steps up to the bridge. At the
mainline terminuses I'm most used to at peak hours, Waterloo and
Liverpool
Street, you often get people waiting on the platform itself and you can
get
a turnaround. And London Bridge evening arrivals are not noticeably
packed.

"Platforms 10 and 15 are narrowed to allow work to continue behind the
hoardings. It might take you longer to get off your train and pass through
the gates during the morning rush hour/morning peak."

From http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/london-bridge/

Platform 15 has a waiting area and promises that people in it won't miss
their trains...

The Standard reports a range of proposals from Network Rail including:

* Cutting some stops from some inbound Southern trains to increase
punctuality
* More rapid response repair teams
* "Customer action teams" to respond to delayed services
* "One Station One Team" with the same jackets and co-operation between
companies
* Independent research on crowd management
* Better info screens, improved wi fi and clearer PA messages

--
My blog: http://adf.ly/4hi4c

This issue was discussed a week ago on the Venessa Feltz phone-in
programme on Radio London. I listened to the first half hour while driving. It
was very interesting listening to the opinions of people who use London Bridge
twice a day.

Two points in particular came out. The first was that passengers waiting to
board a train are not told from which platform their train will leave until about
two or three minutes before departure. This inevitably causes a panic-stricken
rush at the last minute as people are desperate not to miss their train. The
second point is that the station staff do not speak English at all well and do
not know any more than the passengers about what is going on.

How difficult would it be to tackle these two issues?

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 12:33:59AM -0000, Tim Roll-Pickering wrote:

The Standard reports a range of proposals from Network Rail including:

* Cutting some stops from some inbound Southern trains to increase
punctuality

I read that as "pushing the problem to somewhere less visible".

--
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