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London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
I wonder if they employ trippers on that stretch or if they fit the test
trains with AWS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29110845 |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
In message , at 17:31:34 on Sat, 20 Jun
2015, " remarked: I wonder if they employ trippers on that stretch or if they fit the test trains with AWS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29110845 I've seen the tube trains under test at Old Dalby (last time I drove up to the East Midlands a month ago). Unfortunately there wasn't anywhere convenient for me to stop to take a photo. The other odd thing about the line is the OHL a long way from any electrified service lines. https://goo.gl/maps/Q70Uo I doubt they use either trips or AWS as it's a self-contained test track. To get to and from they are dragged by a diesel loco. -- Roland Perry |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 17:31:34 on Sat, 20 Jun 2015, " remarked: I wonder if they employ trippers on that stretch or if they fit the test trains with AWS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29110845 I've seen the tube trains under test at Old Dalby (last time I drove up to the East Midlands a month ago). Unfortunately there wasn't anywhere convenient for me to stop to take a photo. The other odd thing about the line is the OHL a long way from any electrified service lines. https://goo.gl/maps/Q70Uo I think it's the only section of track, anywhere, with both fourth rail and overhead electrification. I think that it's currently being used for both S stock and IEP testing. Old Dalby is also where the currently surplus S7 stick waiting to enter service is being stored. One unusual location for ex-LU stock the BBC missed is Long Marston: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.co...e-this-anymore |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 17:31:34 +0100, "
wrote: I wonder if they employ trippers on that stretch or if they fit the test trains with AWS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29110845 They mentioned the ex-Met Dreadnaughts on the Worth Valley, but not the ex-Met Ashburies on the Bluebell. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
Christopher A. Lee wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 17:31:34 +0100, " wrote: I wonder if they employ trippers on that stretch or if they fit the test trains with AWS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29110845 They mentioned the ex-Met Dreadnaughts on the Worth Valley, but not the ex-Met Ashburies on the Bluebell. True. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 21:03:03 +0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:31:34 on Sat, 20 Jun 2015, " remarked: I wonder if they employ trippers on that stretch or if they fit the test trains with AWS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29110845 I've seen the tube trains under test at Old Dalby (last time I drove up to the East Midlands a month ago). Unfortunately there wasn't anywhere convenient for me to stop to take a photo. The other odd thing about the line is the OHL a long way from any electrified service lines. https://goo.gl/maps/Q70Uo I think it's the only section of track, anywhere, with both fourth rail and overhead electrification. I think that it's currently being used for both S stock and IEP testing. Old Dalby is also where the currently surplus S7 stick waiting to enter service is being stored. One unusual location for ex-LU stock the BBC missed is Long Marston: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.co...e-this-anymore Also found in the past at Shoeburyness. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
On 2015\06\20 22:03, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:31:34 on Sat, 20 Jun 2015, " remarked: I wonder if they employ trippers on that stretch or if they fit the test trains with AWS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29110845 I've seen the tube trains under test at Old Dalby (last time I drove up to the East Midlands a month ago). Unfortunately there wasn't anywhere convenient for me to stop to take a photo. The other odd thing about the line is the OHL a long way from any electrified service lines. https://goo.gl/maps/Q70Uo I think it's the only section of track, anywhere, with both fourth rail and overhead electrification. I think that it's currently being used for both S stock and IEP testing. Old Dalby is also where the currently surplus S7 stick waiting to enter service is being stored. One unusual location for ex-LU stock the BBC missed is Long Marston: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.co...e-this-anymore IIRC Drayton Park has both fourth rail and overhead, although obviously not for much distance. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\06\20 22:03, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:31:34 on Sat, 20 Jun 2015, " remarked: I wonder if they employ trippers on that stretch or if they fit the test trains with AWS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29110845 I've seen the tube trains under test at Old Dalby (last time I drove up to the East Midlands a month ago). Unfortunately there wasn't anywhere convenient for me to stop to take a photo. The other odd thing about the line is the OHL a long way from any electrified service lines. https://goo.gl/maps/Q70Uo I think it's the only section of track, anywhere, with both fourth rail and overhead electrification. I think that it's currently being used for both S stock and IEP testing. Old Dalby is also where the currently surplus S7 stick waiting to enter service is being stored. One unusual location for ex-LU stock the BBC missed is Long Marston: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.co...e-this-anymore IIRC Drayton Park has both fourth rail and overhead, although obviously not for much distance. The fourth rail isn't operational. It was disconnected when the overhead was installed. It does have a short length of third rail and overhead, but that's not uncommon. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 02:41:35 +0100, Basil Jet
wrote: On 2015\06\20 22:03, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:31:34 on Sat, 20 Jun 2015, " remarked: I wonder if they employ trippers on that stretch or if they fit the test trains with AWS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29110845 I've seen the tube trains under test at Old Dalby (last time I drove up to the East Midlands a month ago). Unfortunately there wasn't anywhere convenient for me to stop to take a photo. The other odd thing about the line is the OHL a long way from any electrified service lines. https://goo.gl/maps/Q70Uo I think it's the only section of track, anywhere, with both fourth rail and overhead electrification. I think that it's currently being used for both S stock and IEP testing. Old Dalby is also where the currently surplus S7 stick waiting to enter service is being stored. One unusual location for ex-LU stock the BBC missed is Long Marston: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.co...e-this-anymore IIRC Drayton Park has both fourth rail and overhead, although obviously not for much distance. The fourth rail might not be doing a lot unless it has been left connected but dropped onto the sleepers as done between Harrow and Watford. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
On 2015\06\21 02:45, Recliner wrote:
Basil Jet wrote: IIRC Drayton Park has both fourth rail and overhead, although obviously not for much distance. The fourth rail isn't operational. It was disconnected when the overhead was installed. It does have a short length of third rail and overhead, but that's not uncommon. This seems to imply that overhead + 4th rail is in some way harder to do than overhead + 3rd rail... I would have thought it would be the other way around. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
Charles Ellson wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 02:41:35 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: On 2015\06\20 22:03, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:31:34 on Sat, 20 Jun 2015, " remarked: I wonder if they employ trippers on that stretch or if they fit the test trains with AWS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29110845 I've seen the tube trains under test at Old Dalby (last time I drove up to the East Midlands a month ago). Unfortunately there wasn't anywhere convenient for me to stop to take a photo. The other odd thing about the line is the OHL a long way from any electrified service lines. https://goo.gl/maps/Q70Uo I think it's the only section of track, anywhere, with both fourth rail and overhead electrification. I think that it's currently being used for both S stock and IEP testing. Old Dalby is also where the currently surplus S7 stick waiting to enter service is being stored. One unusual location for ex-LU stock the BBC missed is Long Marston: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.co...e-this-anymore IIRC Drayton Park has both fourth rail and overhead, although obviously not for much distance. The fourth rail might not be doing a lot unless it has been left connected but dropped onto the sleepers as done between Harrow and Watford. It's certainly not a functional fourth rail, and nor would 313s connect to a centre rail anyway. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\06\21 02:45, Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: IIRC Drayton Park has both fourth rail and overhead, although obviously not for much distance. The fourth rail isn't operational. It was disconnected when the overhead was installed. It does have a short length of third rail and overhead, but that's not uncommon. This seems to imply that overhead + 4th rail is in some way harder to do than overhead + 3rd rail... I would have thought it would be the other way around. I think it just so happens that no fourth rail DC trains normally share tracks with any overhead line AC trains. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
On 2015\06\21 03:01, Recliner wrote:
Charles Ellson wrote: On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 02:41:35 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: IIRC Drayton Park has both fourth rail and overhead, although obviously not for much distance. The fourth rail might not be doing a lot unless it has been left connected but dropped onto the sleepers as done between Harrow and Watford. It's certainly not a functional fourth rail, and nor would 313s connect to a centre rail anyway. So why aren't all of the water pipes near the GN&C corroding merrily, which is the problem 4th rail was invented to solve? |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
Basil Jet wrote:
On 2015\06\21 03:01, Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 02:41:35 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: IIRC Drayton Park has both fourth rail and overhead, although obviously not for much distance. The fourth rail might not be doing a lot unless it has been left connected but dropped onto the sleepers as done between Harrow and Watford. It's certainly not a functional fourth rail, and nor would 313s connect to a centre rail anyway. So why aren't all of the water pipes near the GN&C corroding merrily, which is the problem 4th rail was invented to solve? There's plenty of third rail track in tunnels around the world and, indeed, in London. Just think of the ELL. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 02:04:13 +0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 2015\06\21 02:45, Recliner wrote: Basil Jet wrote: IIRC Drayton Park has both fourth rail and overhead, although obviously not for much distance. The fourth rail isn't operational. It was disconnected when the overhead was installed. It does have a short length of third rail and overhead, but that's not uncommon. This seems to imply that overhead + 4th rail is in some way harder to do than overhead + 3rd rail... I would have thought it would be the other way around. c.313s don't use the fourth rail so it is redundant. I think it just so happens that no fourth rail DC trains normally share tracks with any overhead line AC trains. Not since the DC line was converted to 3rd rail. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 02:07:28 +0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote: Basil Jet wrote: On 2015\06\21 03:01, Recliner wrote: Charles Ellson wrote: On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 02:41:35 +0100, Basil Jet wrote: IIRC Drayton Park has both fourth rail and overhead, although obviously not for much distance. The fourth rail might not be doing a lot unless it has been left connected but dropped onto the sleepers as done between Harrow and Watford. It's certainly not a functional fourth rail, and nor would 313s connect to a centre rail anyway. So why aren't all of the water pipes near the GN&C corroding merrily, which is the problem 4th rail was invented to solve? Probably nothing more than a lack of leakage current. If the tunnels are fairly dry and the traction bonds are in good condition then the leakage will be minimal. Many of the water pipes "upstairs" will now be plastic or interrupted by plastic sections which will further limit the flow of leakage currents through them; they're only going to corrode "merrily" when you have a combination of water and metal touching a different metal or other conducting material. On various LU lines, the only reason for 4-rail electrification is for standardisation. There's plenty of third rail track in tunnels around the world and, indeed, in London. Just think of the ELL. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 21:03:03 +0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:31:34 on Sat, 20 Jun 2015, " remarked: I wonder if they employ trippers on that stretch or if they fit the test trains with AWS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29110845 I've seen the tube trains under test at Old Dalby (last time I drove up to the East Midlands a month ago). Unfortunately there wasn't anywhere convenient for me to stop to take a photo. The other odd thing about the line is the OHL a long way from any electrified service lines. https://goo.gl/maps/Q70Uo Swindon works had a short length of third rail at one time within a caged compound, not long enough to run but for powering up some Southern EMU's that were being worked on. I think it's the only section of track, anywhere, with both fourth rail and overhead electrification. I think that it's currently being used for both S stock and IEP testing. Anywhere is a big place, The Milan Metro whose line 1 is electrified with a fourth rail almost like the LU ones has its track shared by overhead powered trains which came later for other routes. Both systems are DC so it is much simpler than the UK AC -DC Mix. ICBW but wasn't one of the continental test tracks given a fourth rail to test some tube stock? But it could have been on a circuit with no overhead. Which stock would that be? The only tube trains built outside the UK for a very long time would be the extra Jubilee line 1996 stock, but I don't know if that was put on an Italian test track. With such a small order (four train sets and 59 trailer cars), I doubt that it was worth equipping an Italian track with a fourth rail electrification system. http://www.alstom.com/press-centre/2...ound-20030619/ |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
Recliner wrote:
I think it's the only section of track, anywhere, with both fourth rail and overhead electrification. I think that it's currently being used for both S stock and IEP testing. Old Dalby is also where the currently surplus S7 stick waiting to enter service is being stored. How about this then: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00llg30 Bombardier test track at Derby. Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK Plant amazing Acers. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
Chris J Dixon wrote:
Recliner wrote: I think it's the only section of track, anywhere, with both fourth rail and overhead electrification. I think that it's currently being used for both S stock and IEP testing. Old Dalby is also where the currently surplus S7 stick waiting to enter service is being stored. How about this then: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00llg30 Bombardier test track at Derby. Yes, you're right, I'd forgotten that one. Incidentally, that link doesn't take me to it, but I found this YouTube video: http://youtu.be/oYoHGSdcQpE |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
In message
-septembe r.org, at 21:03:03 on Sat, 20 Jun 2015, Recliner remarked: I've seen the tube trains under test at Old Dalby (last time I drove up to the East Midlands a month ago). Unfortunately there wasn't anywhere convenient for me to stop to take a photo. The other odd thing about the line is the OHL a long way from any electrified service lines. https://goo.gl/maps/Q70Uo I think it's the only section of track, anywhere, with both fourth rail and overhead electrification. Might they perhaps have some short stretches at the factory in Derby too? -- Roland Perry |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
|
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
Roland Perry wrote:
In message -septembe r.org, at 21:03:03 on Sat, 20 Jun 2015, Recliner remarked: I've seen the tube trains under test at Old Dalby (last time I drove up to the East Midlands a month ago). Unfortunately there wasn't anywhere convenient for me to stop to take a photo. The other odd thing about the line is the OHL a long way from any electrified service lines. https://goo.gl/maps/Q70Uo I think it's the only section of track, anywhere, with both fourth rail and overhead electrification. Might they perhaps have some short stretches at the factory in Derby too? Yes, Chris Dixon correctly pointed that out. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
On 20.06.15 22:03, Recliner wrote:
Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:31:34 on Sat, 20 Jun 2015, " remarked: I wonder if they employ trippers on that stretch or if they fit the test trains with AWS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29110845 I've seen the tube trains under test at Old Dalby (last time I drove up to the East Midlands a month ago). Unfortunately there wasn't anywhere convenient for me to stop to take a photo. The other odd thing about the line is the OHL a long way from any electrified service lines. https://goo.gl/maps/Q70Uo I think it's the only section of track, anywhere, with both fourth rail and overhead electrification. I think that it's currently being used for both S stock and IEP testing. Old Dalby is also where the currently surplus S7 stick waiting to enter service is being stored. One unusual location for ex-LU stock the BBC missed is Long Marston: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.co...e-this-anymore It looks like they are simply stripping out everything on the D-78s, and keeping only the bodies. They did a similar thing with the Soviet railcars on the Prague Metro. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
" wrote:
On 20.06.15 22:03, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:31:34 on Sat, 20 Jun 2015, " remarked: I wonder if they employ trippers on that stretch or if they fit the test trains with AWS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29110845 I've seen the tube trains under test at Old Dalby (last time I drove up to the East Midlands a month ago). Unfortunately there wasn't anywhere convenient for me to stop to take a photo. The other odd thing about the line is the OHL a long way from any electrified service lines. https://goo.gl/maps/Q70Uo I think it's the only section of track, anywhere, with both fourth rail and overhead electrification. I think that it's currently being used for both S stock and IEP testing. Old Dalby is also where the currently surplus S7 stick waiting to enter service is being stored. One unusual location for ex-LU stock the BBC missed is Long Marston: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.co...e-this-anymore It looks like they are simply stripping out everything on the D-78s, and keeping only the bodies. They did a similar thing with the Soviet railcars on the Prague Metro. They're keeping the aluminium bodies and modern bogies with motors. It's possible that some of the interior fittings will be retained, but that's the buyer's choice. Apart from the traction motors, all the electrics will be new, as will, of course, the power rafts. The cab ends are also being strengthened for main line use. With the new cab ends, probably new interiors, new diesel noise, two or three car lengths and all-new liveries, they won't be recognisable as ex-District line trains. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
On 21.06.15 12:07, Recliner wrote:
" wrote: On 20.06.15 22:03, Recliner wrote: Roland Perry wrote: In message , at 17:31:34 on Sat, 20 Jun 2015, " remarked: I wonder if they employ trippers on that stretch or if they fit the test trains with AWS. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29110845 I've seen the tube trains under test at Old Dalby (last time I drove up to the East Midlands a month ago). Unfortunately there wasn't anywhere convenient for me to stop to take a photo. The other odd thing about the line is the OHL a long way from any electrified service lines. https://goo.gl/maps/Q70Uo I think it's the only section of track, anywhere, with both fourth rail and overhead electrification. I think that it's currently being used for both S stock and IEP testing. Old Dalby is also where the currently surplus S7 stick waiting to enter service is being stored. One unusual location for ex-LU stock the BBC missed is Long Marston: http://www.railtechnologymagazine.co...e-this-anymore It looks like they are simply stripping out everything on the D-78s, and keeping only the bodies. They did a similar thing with the Soviet railcars on the Prague Metro. They're keeping the aluminium bodies and modern bogies with motors. It's possible that some of the interior fittings will be retained, but that's the buyer's choice. Apart from the traction motors, all the electrics will be new, as will, of course, the power rafts. The cab ends are also being strengthened for main line use. With the new cab ends, probably new interiors, new diesel noise, two or three car lengths and all-new liveries, they won't be recognisable as ex-District line trains. I saw a similar situation in Prague. I imgaine that people here would be able to notice certain things. Were else could LUL railcars find potential revenue use outside of the network in London, besides where the D-78s are going and the Isle of Wight? Is there any place up for consideration? BTW, I've seen that the DK4s in Pyongyang have found use as regional rail trains. Are there any other such instances in the world? |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 09:59:33 +0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: wrote: On Sat, 20 Jun 2015 21:03:03 +0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote: ICBW but wasn't one of the continental test tracks given a fourth rail to test some tube stock? But it could have been on a circuit with no overhead. Which stock would that be? The only tube trains built outside the UK for a very long time would be the extra Jubilee line 1996 stock That was probably the stock I was thinking of but as I said ICBW , The suggestion by Arthur Figgis that the third rail laid at Wildenrath was what seeded the idea is most likely. but I don't know if that was put on an Italian test track. With such a small order (four train sets and 59 trailer cars), I doubt that it was worth equipping an Italian track with a fourth rail electrification system. Wasn't the stock both original and later build constructed in Spain? Not sure if was actually built complete abroad or if it was bodies fitted out later like the 95 stock. The original orders were assembled by GEC-Alsthom in Washwood Heath (the old Met Cam works). By the time of the top-up order, that plant had closed, so they were built by Alstom, I thought in Savigliano, Italy, like the extra Pendolino order. But maybe they were assembled in Spain and I was getting confused with the Pendolino order? Wherever it was can soon expect another top-up order for updated 95TS trains for the Northern and Jubilee lines. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
Recliner wrote:
Chris J Dixon wrote: How about this then: Bombardier test track at Derby. Yes, you're right, I'd forgotten that one. Incidentally, that link doesn't take me to it, but I found this YouTube video: http://youtu.be/oYoHGSdcQpE My fault, looks like my clipboard had not refreshed, and your link was exactly what I had intended to post. For some time my office was within about 40 metres of that track. Chris -- Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK Plant amazing Acers. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 23:38:18 +0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: The original orders were assembled by GEC-Alsthom in Washwood Heath (the old Met Cam works). By the time of the top-up order, that plant had closed, so they were built by Alstom, I thought in Savigliano, Italy, like the extra Pendolino order. But maybe they were assembled in Spain and I was getting confused with the Pendolino order? Wherever it was can soon expect another top-up order for updated 95TS trains for the Northern and Jubilee lines. I imagine a few new trains will be needed for the new battersea branch on the northern, but why will the jubilee need new trains? The service is pretty frequent already, I can't see how they'll squeeze any more trains onto the line. -- Spud |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 10:54:24 +0100
Recliner wrote: The Northern needs five more for the Battersea extension plus up to 45 more to increase frequencies to up to 30 tph on the rest of the line. Incidentally, Battersea will run as an extension of the Charing Cross route, not as a separate branch. https://www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/medi...lu-to-source-a ditional-tube-trains Thats a lot of trains. I wonder if they'll keep essentially the same train or will go for something all new under the skin? Also couldn't do any harm to make the windows larger. -- Spud |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 10:54:24 +0100 Recliner wrote: The Northern needs five more for the Battersea extension plus up to 45 more to increase frequencies to up to 30 tph on the rest of the line. Incidentally, Battersea will run as an extension of the Charing Cross route, not as a separate branch. https://www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/medi...lu-to-source-a ditional-tube-trains Thats a lot of trains. I wonder if they'll keep essentially the same train or will go for something all new under the skin? Also couldn't do any harm to make the windows larger. Yes, it is a surprisingly large order. In fact, if they go for the full number, it's more than the total 2009 TS Victoria line stock. There's obviously some constraints on the design: the doors must be in the same position as on the current Victoria line stock, and they must be available in six and seven car lengths for the two lines. One possibility might be to cascade existing Northern line 95 TS to the Jubilee, re-marshalled as seven-car units, with all the new trains going to the Northern Line, so they're kept together (or vice versa). The 95TS isn't compatible with the older technology 96TS Jubilee line stock, but they look almost the same and the cars are the same size. So one train must be made up of one type or the other card, but trains of both type should be able to mix on a line. I would think that with such a large order, the new trains will have newer technology than the existing stock, which will be about 25 years older. But TfL may want them to look the same for passengers, so the windows may be the same. The performance will probably also be the same as they will have to run together on the same line, unless they're all put on one branch of the Northern line (see below). Alstom must be the favourite to win the order, but I assume there will have to be a competitive tender, so Bombardier, say, could win. Maybe it'll be a variant of your favourite thick-walled 2009 stock? And if they go ahead with the proposal to split the Northern into two separate lines, we could imagine all of this new fleet being on one of those branches, the 95TS on the other branch, and the Jubilee having a mix of its older 96TS and cascaded 95TS from the Northern. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
Recliner wrote:
wrote: On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 10:54:24 +0100 Recliner wrote: The Northern needs five more for the Battersea extension plus up to 45 more to increase frequencies to up to 30 tph on the rest of the line. Incidentally, Battersea will run as an extension of the Charing Cross route, not as a separate branch. https://www.tfl.gov.uk/info-for/medi...lu-to-source-a ditional-tube-trains Thats a lot of trains. I wonder if they'll keep essentially the same train or will go for something all new under the skin? Also couldn't do any harm to make the windows larger. Yes, it is a surprisingly large order. In fact, if they go for the full number, it's more than the total 2009 TS Victoria line stock. There's obviously some constraints on the design: the doors must be in the same position as on the current Victoria [Oops!] *Jubilee* line stock, and they must be available in six and seven car lengths for the two lines. One possibility might be to cascade existing Northern line 95 TS to the Jubilee, re-marshalled as seven-car units, with all the new trains going to the Northern Line, so they're kept together (or vice versa). The 95TS isn't compatible with the older technology 96TS Jubilee line stock, but they look almost the same and the cars are the same size. So one train must be made up of one type or the other card, but trains of both type should be able to mix on a line. I would think that with such a large order, the new trains will have newer technology than the existing stock, which will be about 25 years older. But TfL may want them to look the same for passengers, so the windows may be the same. The performance will probably also be the same as they will have to run together on the same line, unless they're all put on one branch of the Northern line (see below). Alstom must be the favourite to win the order, but I assume there will have to be a competitive tender, so Bombardier, say, could win. Maybe it'll be a variant of your favourite thick-walled 2009 stock? And if they go ahead with the proposal to split the Northern into two separate lines, we could imagine all of this new fleet being on one of those branches, the 95TS on the other branch, and the Jubilee having a mix of its older 96TS and cascaded 95TS from the Northern. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 14:53:39 +0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote: Alstom must be the favourite to win the order, but I assume there will have to be a competitive tender, so Bombardier, say, could win. Maybe it'll be a variant of your favourite thick-walled 2009 stock? IMO the 2009 is actually a nice train except for the bloody stupid interior layout. If they pushed the seats right back they could have 2 rows of people standing in the isles like on the 92 stock on the central (at the places where the seats are right up against the windows) instead of just 1. -- Spud |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
In message
-septemb er.org, Recliner wrote: This seems to imply that overhead + 4th rail is in some way harder to do than overhead + 3rd rail... I would have thought it would be the other way around. I think it just so happens that no fourth rail DC trains normally share tracks with any overhead line AC trains. I can't think of any instances: I'm fairly sure the tracks are segregated throughout at Barking and Upminster. Euston used to have shared 4th rail and AC; that section was converted to 3rd rail at some point in (IIRC) the 1980s. Not sure if the Willesden TMD entry road is shared 4th and AC or just shared 3rd and AC. -- Clive D.W. Feather | Home: Mobile: +44 7973 377646 | Web: http://www.davros.org Please reply to the Reply-To address, which is: |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
On Sat, 27 Jun 2015 23:43:43 +0100, "Clive D. W. Feather"
wrote: In message -septemb er.org, Recliner wrote: This seems to imply that overhead + 4th rail is in some way harder to do than overhead + 3rd rail... I would have thought it would be the other way around. I think it just so happens that no fourth rail DC trains normally share tracks with any overhead line AC trains. I can't think of any instances: I'm fairly sure the tracks are segregated throughout at Barking and Upminster. Euston used to have shared 4th rail and AC; that section was converted to 3rd rail at some point in (IIRC) the 1980s. Not sure if the Willesden TMD entry road is shared 4th and AC or just shared 3rd and AC. It would have been converted at the same time as the rest of the DC line (and the 4th rail has since been removed) so the same as the shared lines into Euston. While the sectional appendix instructs that non-LU trains are not to enter Stonebridge Park depot or Queens Park sheds under any circumstances there seems to be no converse instruction preventing a disabled LU train or vehicle from being shunted into Willesden TMD if necessary. |
London Tubes: Unexpected locations of underground trains
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