On 05/08/15 13:48, Recliner wrote:
As most people here must know, Chiltern runs one service a day, M-F,
to Paddington. It's run mainly for maintaining driver route knowledge
for the occasions when Chiltern services are diverted to Paddington.

It's not quite a parly service, as it runs at a convenient time, five
days a week, but it's also not promoted and little used other than by
rail enthusiasts (the few passengers are all sole males with cameras).
And, yes, I was one of those this week, and here's the evidence:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57654494380303

But it got me wondering if Chiltern could or should run more services
into Paddington? Chiltern's services are growing steadily, with 2 tph
Oxford services being added soon. The two-track route into Marylebone
is congested, as are Marylebone's six platforms. Would it be possible
to run, say, 2 tph into Paddington? There's obviously many
constraints, including:

I had thought the plan was to divert a couple of the existing services to
Oxford. The xx48 from Marylebone would be an obvious choice: it terminates
at Bicester, rather than the more natural Banbury, and doesn't connect with
anything. However the matching xx18 service which would be the other one to
send to Oxford does have a connection at Bicester North and is also
sometimes extended to Banbury or Stratford (even though it would be better
to extend the xx48).

Having some trains going to Paddington and others to Marylebone would be
particularly awkward when travelling out from London as you could go to one
station only to find that the next train left from the other.

Roger

On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 22:03:13 +0100, Roger Lynn
wrote:

On 05/08/15 13:48, Recliner wrote:
snip

Having some trains going to Paddington and others to Marylebone would be
particularly awkward when travelling out from London as you could go to one
station only to find that the next train left from the other.

They've got things called timetables (printed or electronic form) to
cure that. People travelling from various SR stations will be fairly
used to trains leaving by more than one route.

"Charles Ellson" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 22:03:13 +0100, Roger Lynn
wrote:

On 05/08/15 13:48, Recliner wrote:
snip

Having some trains going to Paddington and others to Marylebone would be
particularly awkward when travelling out from London as you could go to
one
station only to find that the next train left from the other.

They've got things called timetables (printed or electronic form) to
cure that. People travelling from various SR stations will be fairly
used to trains leaving by more than one route.


Timetables are fine but if you want to catch the next service to HW and are
travelling from (for example) Trafalgar Square it is difficult to judge how
long it will take you by each route on the Underground and therefore which
mainline station you should had for. Suppose you aim for the next train out
of Paddington but are slightly delayed and miss the train. Now you've got to
get from Paddington to Marylebone before *that* train departs, when if you'd
known you were going to be delayed you'd have gone directly to Marylebone
and been certain to catch that train. At least Paddington and Marylebone are
close enough that it doesn't take long on the Bakerloo line between one and
the other, so you can probably do it before the next train leaves *if they
are equally spaced*.

In uk.railway NY wrote:
Timetables are fine but if you want to catch the next service to HW and are
travelling from (for example) Trafalgar Square it is difficult to judge how
long it will take you by each route on the Underground and therefore which
mainline station you should had for.

As already discussed, this happens for KX/Liverpool St to Cambridge. The
journey time difference is such that it isn't real competition: if you're in
about a 15 min tube radius of Liverpool St or further east then that route
can swing it, otherwise it's almost always faster to go to KX, except in
case of disruption. The arithmetic varies a little bit during the day (in
the peaks KX/LST are about evens, off-peak KX wins, late evening both are
slower but KX still wins) but not enough to sway it. It can also vary if
you want to do Tottenham Hale (all LST trains) or Finsbury Park (KX
semi-fasts) rather than the terminus, which can work out depending on your
start point.

The frequency, spacing and journey time to get between the two is such that
if you miss a train, it's still quickest to stay put and wait for the next
one.

Theo

On 07/08/15 22:23, Charles Ellson wrote:
On Fri, 07 Aug 2015 22:03:13 +0100, Roger Lynn
wrote:
Having some trains going to Paddington and others to Marylebone would be
particularly awkward when travelling out from London as you could go to one
station only to find that the next train left from the other.

They've got things called timetables (printed or electronic form) to
cure that.

That's fine if they're actually kept to, but previously it wasn't necessary
to study a timetable, you could just turn up and be sure of catching the
next train, whenever it happened to be.

People travelling from various SR stations will be fairly
used to trains leaving by more than one route.

That doesn't stop it being a new and unnecessary inconvenience on this route.

Roger

On 07/08/2015 22:03, Roger Lynn wrote:
On 05/08/15 13:48, Recliner wrote:
As most people here must know, Chiltern runs one service a day,
M-F, to Paddington. It's run mainly for maintaining driver route
knowledge for the occasions when Chiltern services are diverted to
Paddington.

It's not quite a parly service, as it runs at a convenient time,
five days a week, but it's also not promoted and little used other
than by rail enthusiasts (the few passengers are all sole males
with cameras). And, yes, I was one of those this week, and here's
the evidence:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57654494380303

But it got me wondering if Chiltern could or should run more
services into Paddington? Chiltern's services are growing
steadily, with 2 tph Oxford services being added soon. The
two-track route into Marylebone is congested, as are Marylebone's
six platforms. Would it be possible to run, say, 2 tph into
Paddington? There's obviously many constraints, including:

I had thought the plan was to divert a couple of the existing
services to Oxford. The xx48 from Marylebone would be an obvious
choice: it terminates at Bicester, rather than the more natural
Banbury, and doesn't connect with anything. However the matching xx18
service which would be the other one to send to Oxford does have a
connection at Bicester North and is also sometimes extended to
Banbury or Stratford (even though it would be better to extend the
xx48).

Having some trains going to Paddington and others to Marylebone would
be particularly awkward when travelling out from London as you could
go to one station only to find that the next train left from the
other.

Roger


Not a problem in Manchester, where trains to Liverpool depart from
Victoria, or from (Piccadilly + Oxford Road)

BevanPrice wrote:
On 07/08/2015 22:03, Roger Lynn wrote:
On 05/08/15 13:48, Recliner wrote:
As most people here must know, Chiltern runs one service a day,
M-F, to Paddington. It's run mainly for maintaining driver route
knowledge for the occasions when Chiltern services are diverted to
Paddington.

It's not quite a parly service, as it runs at a convenient time,
five days a week, but it's also not promoted and little used other
than by rail enthusiasts (the few passengers are all sole males
with cameras). And, yes, I was one of those this week, and here's
the evidence:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57654494380303

But it got me wondering if Chiltern could or should run more
services into Paddington? Chiltern's services are growing
steadily, with 2 tph Oxford services being added soon. The
two-track route into Marylebone is congested, as are Marylebone's
six platforms. Would it be possible to run, say, 2 tph into
Paddington? There's obviously many constraints, including:

I had thought the plan was to divert a couple of the existing
services to Oxford. The xx48 from Marylebone would be an obvious
choice: it terminates at Bicester, rather than the more natural
Banbury, and doesn't connect with anything. However the matching xx18
service which would be the other one to send to Oxford does have a
connection at Bicester North and is also sometimes extended to
Banbury or Stratford (even though it would be better to extend the
xx48).

Having some trains going to Paddington and others to Marylebone would
be particularly awkward when travelling out from London as you could
go to one station only to find that the next train left from the
other.

Roger


Not a problem in Manchester, where trains to Liverpool depart from
Victoria, or from (Piccadilly + Oxford Road)

It's pretty standard in south London, as many stations are served by trains
from more than one of Waterloo, Victoria, Blackfriars and London Bridge.

On Fri, 7 Aug 2015 23:14:07 +0000 (UTC), Recliner
wrote:

BevanPrice wrote:
On 07/08/2015 22:03, Roger Lynn wrote:
On 05/08/15 13:48, Recliner wrote:
As most people here must know, Chiltern runs one service a day,
M-F, to Paddington. It's run mainly for maintaining driver route
knowledge for the occasions when Chiltern services are diverted to
Paddington.

It's not quite a parly service, as it runs at a convenient time,
five days a week, but it's also not promoted and little used other
than by rail enthusiasts (the few passengers are all sole males
with cameras). And, yes, I was one of those this week, and here's
the evidence:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/reclin...57654494380303

But it got me wondering if Chiltern could or should run more
services into Paddington? Chiltern's services are growing
steadily, with 2 tph Oxford services being added soon. The
two-track route into Marylebone is congested, as are Marylebone's
six platforms. Would it be possible to run, say, 2 tph into
Paddington? There's obviously many constraints, including:

I had thought the plan was to divert a couple of the existing
services to Oxford. The xx48 from Marylebone would be an obvious
choice: it terminates at Bicester, rather than the more natural
Banbury, and doesn't connect with anything. However the matching xx18
service which would be the other one to send to Oxford does have a
connection at Bicester North and is also sometimes extended to
Banbury or Stratford (even though it would be better to extend the
xx48).

Having some trains going to Paddington and others to Marylebone would
be particularly awkward when travelling out from London as you could
go to one station only to find that the next train left from the
other.

Roger


Not a problem in Manchester, where trains to Liverpool depart from
Victoria, or from (Piccadilly + Oxford Road)

It's pretty standard in south London, as many stations are served by trains
from more than one of Waterloo, Victoria, Blackfriars and London Bridge.

Some of the stations are served in both directions as well (e.g.
Lewisham, Clapham Junction) by trains on loop routes although the
displayed destination tends to be changed during the journey thus
preventing unwanted journeys by the pretty route. North of the Thames,
trains leave Highbury and Islington (also Canonbury) for Clapham
Junction in opposite directions; some are at identical departure times
(so you can choose the wrong platform rather than the wrong station).

On 2015\08\08 00:49, Charles Ellson wrote:

North of the Thames,
trains leave Highbury and Islington (also Canonbury) for Clapham
Junction in opposite directions; some are at identical departure times
(so you can choose the wrong platform rather than the wrong station).

I was going to say it doesn't matter much, because journey times are
similar, but the Shoreditch route cuts through zone 1 and the Willesden
route stays in zone 2. They could fix the problem by usually terminating
the via Peckham trains at Dalston Junction... they appear to run ever
single one to or from Highbury, giving Croydon and New Cross the Dalston
terminators.

In message , at 05:21:40 on Sat, 8 Aug 2015,
Basil Jet remarked:
On 2015\08\08 00:49, Charles Ellson wrote:

North of the Thames,
trains leave Highbury and Islington (also Canonbury) for Clapham
Junction in opposite directions; some are at identical departure times
(so you can choose the wrong platform rather than the wrong station).

But most are 2 minutes apart. In any case with a turn-up-and-go service
like that you won't normally be aiming for a particularly timed train.

Also a rather big clue that the clockwise trains have a set of buffers
just to the west of the platform (which means the platforms either
service uses is completely predictable - in theory 7 for anticlockwaise
and either 1 or 2 for clockwise, although looking at today's running
they are always platform 2).

And that the clockwise trains set off having berthed there about five
minutes, whereas the anticlockwise ones arrive from the previous
station, running through.

And finally, only the anticlockwise ones use the OHL.

I was going to say it doesn't matter much, because journey times are
similar, but the Shoreditch route cuts through zone 1 and the Willesden
route stays in zone 2.

I was there yesterday, and the way they describe the trains doesn't lead
to ambiguity - in other words they emphasive the "via's".

They could fix the problem by usually terminating the via Peckham
trains

iirc they call them "via Canada Water" (And Willesden Junction the other
way)

at Dalston Junction... they appear to run ever single one to or from
Highbury, giving Croydon and New Cross the Dalston terminators.

And the Highbury terminators alternate between Clapham Junction and
Crystal Palace. That leaves CJ with only one train via Canada Water
every 15 minutes.
--
Roland Perry