NTfL: usual suspects short-listed
 

http://railnews.mobi/news/2016/01/18...ilders-of.html

London Underground shortlists builders of driverless trains
18th January 2016

LONDON Underground has issued invitations to tender for the next generation
of trains for the deep tubes, just two days since a door opened
unexpectedly on one of the trains which are to be replaced.

The proposed contract will provide new fleets for the Bakerloo, Central,
Piccadilly and Waterloo & City lines, which will all be suitable for
automatic operation.

Unions are calling for urgent action after the failure on Saturday, when a
door opened on a moving train near Heathrow Terminal 4 station. The RMT
said it had been drawing LUL's attention to various faults on the
Piccadilly Line's 1975 stock for the past year, but LUL has described the
incident as an 'isolated' one. Some drivers have since refused to work on
Piccadilly Line trains, and cancellations were reported on Sunday.

The 'New Tube for London' trains are set to be built by one of five
shortlisted bidders, who are Alstom, Bombardier, CAF, Hitachi and Siemens.

The contract will require 250 walk-through, air-cooled trains for the deep
tubes to be delivered in the early 2020s.

The Mayor of London Boris Johnson said: “Over the last few years we have
seen the completion of several major signalling upgrades on the Tube, as
well as the delivery of 191 brand new air-conditioned walk-through trains.
But it is clear that London must have continued investment in its Tube
network if it is to continue to flourish, and that is why I have argued so
hard to protect our capital investment programme. I am delighted that we
are now able to launch the process to commission a fleet of new deep-level
Tube trains that will transform journeys for the millions of passengers.�

London Underground managing director Nick Brown said: "Today’s invitation
to train manufacturers to submit bids for the design and build of the New
Tube is a significant step forward. Londoners have already seen huge
improvements to the Tube network, but to meet the needs of our rapidly
growing population we must continue to invest in and improve our services.
More people are using the Underground than at any point in its 153-year
history. The New Tube for London will transform the journeys of millions of
customers, providing trains fit for a world city for the next five
decades.�

London Underground said the new trains would feature 'attractive internal
styling that echoes the Underground's heritage,' and would also 'help to
support new jobs and growth elsewhere in the UK'.

Bidders will need to return their proposals to LU this summer, with the
contract due to be awarded in autumn next year. LUL's procurement programme
is running several years late, because new trains for the Piccadilly Line
were originally due to have entered service in 2014.

Ends

----------

So when might these trains enter service? Presumably 2022 or later. It's
a very big contract, much larger even than the S Stock or Thameslink, so
the bidders will fight hard to win it.

It's also interesting that the headline focuses on the driverless feature
of the trains, even though this may not be used initially. Maybe a
not-very-subtle reminder to the existing strike-prone drivers that their
days may be numbered?

NTfL: usual suspects short-listed
 

On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 22:53:26 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
It's also interesting that the headline focuses on the driverless feature
of the trains, even though this may not be used initially. Maybe a
not-very-subtle reminder to the existing strike-prone drivers that their
days may be numbered?

The drivers probably know there'll have to be someone on board and it doesn't
matter if they're at the front driving or wandering around like on the DLR.
They'll still be paid the same (or else) so I doubt they care.

Lets hope the actual trains are somewhat less butt ugly than the mock up
shown there.

--
Spud

NTfL: usual suspects short-listed
 

wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 22:53:26 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
It's also interesting that the headline focuses on the driverless feature
of the trains, even though this may not be used initially. Maybe a
not-very-subtle reminder to the existing strike-prone drivers that their
days may be numbered?

The drivers probably know there'll have to be someone on board and it doesn't
matter if they're at the front driving or wandering around like on the DLR.
They'll still be paid the same (or else) so I doubt they care.

I think the DLR PSAs are paid significantly less than LU drivers.


Lets hope the actual trains are somewhat less butt ugly than the mock up
shown there.

Yes, the designers of that model were trying just a bit too hard to
incorporate the LU roundel into the front-end design.

NTfL: usual suspects short-listed
 

On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 10:23:13 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
wrote:
On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 22:53:26 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
It's also interesting that the headline focuses on the driverless feature
of the trains, even though this may not be used initially. Maybe a
not-very-subtle reminder to the existing strike-prone drivers that their
days may be numbered?

The drivers probably know there'll have to be someone on board and it doesn't
matter if they're at the front driving or wandering around like on the DLR.
They'll still be paid the same (or else) so I doubt they care.

I think the DLR PSAs are paid significantly less than LU drivers.

Doesn't surprise me. But can you imagine what would happen if LU tried to cut
driver salaries or recruit new drivers on lower ones to operate these trains.
LU have made a rod for their own backs - the RMT know they always cave in the
end when faced with a strike.

--
Spud

NTfL: usual suspects short-listed
 

On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 11:06:57 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

Doesn't surprise me. But can you imagine what would happen if LU tried to cut
driver salaries or recruit new drivers on lower ones to operate these trains.
LU have made a rod for their own backs - the RMT know they always cave in the
end when faced with a strike.

Several strikes have happened, so that's not the reality.

--
jhk

NTfL: usual suspects short-listed
 

On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 14:43:48 +0100
Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 11:06:57 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

Doesn't surprise me. But can you imagine what would happen if LU tried to cut
driver salaries or recruit new drivers on lower ones to operate these trains.
LU have made a rod for their own backs - the RMT know they always cave in the
end when faced with a strike.

Several strikes have happened, so that's not the reality.

Point is the drivers always get what they want in the end. The law needs to be
changed so that if people go on strike for minor issues like salary disputes
then they can legally be sacked.

--
Spud

NTfL: usual suspects short-listed
 

wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 14:43:48 +0100
Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 11:06:57 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

Doesn't surprise me. But can you imagine what would happen if LU tried to cut
driver salaries or recruit new drivers on lower ones to operate these trains.
LU have made a rod for their own backs - the RMT know they always cave in the
end when faced with a strike.

Several strikes have happened, so that's not the reality.

Point is the drivers always get what they want in the end. The law needs to be
changed so that if people go on strike for minor issues like salary disputes
then they can legally be sacked.

So far the drivers haven't won with their Night Tube strikes (which are
presumably just disguised pay strikes).

Of course, the strikes will become even more effective if we get another
Labour mayor in May. Sadiq isn't a commie like Ken, but he's still unlikely
to stand up to the unions.

NTfL: usual suspects short-listed
 

On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 14:52:02 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner wrote:
Of course, the strikes will become even more effective if we get another
Labour mayor in May. Sadiq isn't a commie like Ken, but he's still unlikely
to stand up to the unions.

Khan is a former human rights lawyer and was chairman of Liberty at one point
and spent a large amount of time bringing cases against the police so I
wouldn't **** on him if he was on fire and sitting in the only urinal.
Also his Ad Hominem attack on Zac Goldsmith a few weeks back shows his real
personality and style of politics.

If he's true to his type he'll be permanently opposed to anything the
government does regardless of merit but as you say will back down as soon as
the unions start flexing their muscle. Unfortunately Goldsmith is a bit of a
non-entity so Khan has a good chance of winning.

--
Spud

NTfL: usual suspects short-listed
 

On 2016-01-19, d wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 14:43:48 +0100
Jarle Hammen Knudsen wrote:
On Tue, 19 Jan 2016 11:06:57 +0000 (UTC), d wrote:

Doesn't surprise me. But can you imagine what would happen if LU tried to cut
driver salaries or recruit new drivers on lower ones to operate these trains.
LU have made a rod for their own backs - the RMT know they always cave in the
end when faced with a strike.

Several strikes have happened, so that's not the reality.

Point is the drivers always get what they want in the end. The law needs to be
changed so that if people go on strike for minor issues like salary disputes
then they can legally be sacked.

A salary dispute is not a minor issue. If you need more money you might
still be reasonably certain of being able to go elsewhere almost
immediately. Tube drivers (and enormous numbers of people in a wide
variety of jobs) not so much. And since the current tendency is for the
value of wages to be eroded, why wouldn't they need more money?

Note the deliberate use of "need" rather than "want".

Eric
--
ms fnd in a lbry

NTfL: usual suspects short-listed
 

In message , at 18:16:49 on Tue, 19
Jan 2016, Eric remarked:
A salary dispute is not a minor issue. If you need more money you might
still be reasonably certain of being able to go elsewhere almost
immediately. Tube drivers (and enormous numbers of people in a wide
variety of jobs) not so much. And since the current tendency is for the
value of wages to be eroded, why wouldn't they need more money?

I agree about the lack of mobility of the rump of employees who aren't
C++ programmers, but most people agree that train drivers are overpaid
for their four day week.
--
Roland Perry