Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
 

tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 09:14:01 on Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner
remarked:

“True independent contractors have the freedom to decide when they want to
work and what kind of work they want to do,� Benjamin Sachs, a Harvard Law
School professor told CNNMoney. “By giving drivers timeouts, Uber is
exercising the kind of control over its workforce that employers exercise
over employees.�

I thought the whole point of Uber from a drivers point of view was being
able to work flexible hours and/or part time.

well I think that they can, in the sense that they can choose what shift
times to work this week

The issue seems to be around not accepting particular rides when
self-declared "on shift".

Though the post that Recliner made was about poolriding.

Complaint was, it's more effort for no more money.

I find that very strange. I though the MO of Uber was that all of the
billing, less some percentage commission goes to the driver (the same as the
hotel booking sites for instance). So if the billing goes up because three
pool riders are sharing, then so should the amount that the driver gets.

If Uber have structured this deal so that they get to keep all of the extra
income (whilst incurring the driver in extra expense of the
pick-up/set-downs), them my like of Uber has gone down even more (by a
couple of notches).

You already hated Uber with a deep passion, despite manifestly knowing
nothing about it. So how could you now like it even less?

With regard to the pool issue, pooled customers get discount, and so the
driver also gets less from each, while his costs go up:

Quote:

With UberPool, riders traveling to similar destinations are grouped
together in the same vehicle. Riders receive a discount for using UberPool.
Uber claims the service can help drivers make more money because they spend
less time waiting between rides. (Ride requests are generally sent to the
driver who is nearest to the person requesting a ride.)

Yet Uber drivers are generally unhappy with UberPool, according to
interviews with two experts, seven drivers and an extensive review of
online forums where thousands of drivers congregate, including Facebook and
Reddit. The Independent Drivers Guild, which advocates for New York's
35,000 Uber drivers, calls UberPool a top issue for drivers.

Drivers say UberPool means more work, but not necessarily more pay. Many
also complain that driving for Uber Pool hurts the ratings customers give
them. They say the customer experience is negatively influenced by going
out of the way to pick up another rider, and then sitting next to a
sometimes undesirable passenger.
"They do it begrudgingly," Harry Campbell, founder of The Rideshare Guy, a
ridesharing blog, said of drivers participating in UberPool. "They're
basically doing the same trips, but now they have two people in [their car]
and they get paid about the same amount."

From http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/28/tech...pool-timeouts/

Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
 

On 18/08/2016 10:41, Recliner wrote:


a
truly self-employed person who can take a break whenever they like,


I think that's not a valid paraphrase of the Harvard professor or of UK
law. Eg I doubt locum doctors working in A&E under a contract for
services are free to take a break "whenever they like".

I also doubt that self-employed drivers with a "patch" can decide to
take some parcels but not others; or decide half-way through a day's
deliveries that they don't want to do any more work that day.

I'm not defending Uber but I do think much depends on the precise terms
of the Uber contract.


--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
 

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 09:41:28 on Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner
remarked:

“True independent contractors have the freedom to decide when they want to
work and what kind of work they want to do,� Benjamin Sachs, a Harvard Law
School professor told CNNMoney. “By giving drivers timeouts, Uber is
exercising the kind of control over its workforce that employers exercise
over employees.�

I thought the whole point of Uber from a drivers point of view was being
able to work flexible hours and/or part time.

Yes, but it seems they have less freedom than they expected. And unlike a
truly self-employed person who can take a break whenever they like,

That's an oversimplification. As a (formerly) truly self-employed person
if I promised to attend at a client's site all day, it wasn't expected
that I could just take a break whenever it suited me.

Uber penalises them if they do.

Even if the driver "logs off"?
--
Roland Perry

Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
 

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 12:50:59 +0100, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message
-sept
ember.org, at 09:41:28 on Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner
remarked:

“True independent contractors have the freedom to decide when they want to
work and what kind of work they want to do,” Benjamin Sachs, a Harvard Law
School professor told CNNMoney. “By giving drivers timeouts, Uber is
exercising the kind of control over its workforce that employers exercise
over employees.”

I thought the whole point of Uber from a drivers point of view was being
able to work flexible hours and/or part time.

Yes, but it seems they have less freedom than they expected. And unlike a
truly self-employed person who can take a break whenever they like,

That's an oversimplification. As a (formerly) truly self-employed person
if I promised to attend at a client's site all day, it wasn't expected
that I could just take a break whenever it suited me.

But didn't you get paid for the whole day, meaning that all your time
during that working day had been paid-for?

Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
 

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 12:24:10 +0100, Robin wrote:

On 18/08/2016 10:41, Recliner wrote:


a
truly self-employed person who can take a break whenever they like,


I think that's not a valid paraphrase of the Harvard professor or of UK
law. Eg I doubt locum doctors working in A&E under a contract for
services are free to take a break "whenever they like".

Sure, but they're paid for the whole shift. Uber drivers aren't.
They're effectively on piece work, but are not only not paid while
they take a break, but kept offline as punishment is they do.


I also doubt that self-employed drivers with a "patch" can decide to
take some parcels but not others; or decide half-way through a day's
deliveries that they don't want to do any more work that day.

I think that's exactly what some do.


I'm not defending Uber but I do think much depends on the precise terms
of the Uber contract.

I'd imagine their contract is watertight, but not necessarily fair.

Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
 

"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 09:14:01 on Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner
remarked:

“True independent contractors have the freedom to decide when they want
to
work and what kind of work they want to do,� Benjamin Sachs, a Harvard
Law
School professor told CNNMoney. “By giving drivers timeouts, Uber is
exercising the kind of control over its workforce that employers
exercise
over employees.�

I thought the whole point of Uber from a drivers point of view was being
able to work flexible hours and/or part time.

well I think that they can, in the sense that they can choose what shift
times to work this week

The issue seems to be around not accepting particular rides when
self-declared "on shift".

Though the post that Recliner made was about poolriding.

Complaint was, it's more effort for no more money.

I find that very strange. I though the MO of Uber was that all of the
billing, less some percentage commission goes to the driver (the same as
the
hotel booking sites for instance). So if the billing goes up because
three
pool riders are sharing, then so should the amount that the driver gets.

If Uber have structured this deal so that they get to keep all of the
extra
income (whilst incurring the driver in extra expense of the
pick-up/set-downs), them my like of Uber has gone down even more (by a
couple of notches).

You already hated Uber with a deep passion,

No, I hate it's business model

despite manifestly knowing
nothing about it.

I know lots about it

One doesn't have to be a user of something to know how it works

So how could you now like it even less?

With regard to the pool issue, pooled customers get discount, and so the
driver also gets less from each, while his costs go up:

Quote:

With UberPool, riders traveling to similar destinations are grouped
together in the same vehicle. Riders receive a discount for using
UberPool.
Uber claims the service can help drivers make more money because they
spend
less time waiting between rides. (Ride requests are generally sent to the
driver who is nearest to the person requesting a ride.)

They would say that wouldn't they


tim

Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
 

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 13:29:54 +0100, "tim..."
wrote:


"Recliner" wrote in message
...
tim... wrote:

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message
-sept
ember.org, at 09:14:01 on Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner
remarked:

“True independent contractors have the freedom to decide when they want
to
work and what kind of work they want to do,” Benjamin Sachs, a Harvard
Law
School professor told CNNMoney. “By giving drivers timeouts, Uber is
exercising the kind of control over its workforce that employers
exercise
over employees.”

I thought the whole point of Uber from a drivers point of view was being
able to work flexible hours and/or part time.

well I think that they can, in the sense that they can choose what shift
times to work this week

The issue seems to be around not accepting particular rides when
self-declared "on shift".

Though the post that Recliner made was about poolriding.

Complaint was, it's more effort for no more money.

I find that very strange. I though the MO of Uber was that all of the
billing, less some percentage commission goes to the driver (the same as
the
hotel booking sites for instance). So if the billing goes up because
three
pool riders are sharing, then so should the amount that the driver gets.

If Uber have structured this deal so that they get to keep all of the
extra
income (whilst incurring the driver in extra expense of the
pick-up/set-downs), them my like of Uber has gone down even more (by a
couple of notches).

You already hated Uber with a deep passion,

No, I hate it's business model

What do you hate about its business model? Do you even know what it
is?


despite manifestly knowing
nothing about it.

I know lots about it

Really? It's not apparent from your posts.

Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
 

In message , at 13:06:19 on
Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked:

As a (formerly) truly self-employed person if I promised to attend at
a client's site all day, it wasn't expected that I could just take a
break whenever it suited me.

But didn't you get paid for the whole day, meaning that all your time
during that working day had been paid-for?

I've never specified how many hours a day, but typically I'd do about
13hrs a day, albeit to include commuting time if required. Normally the
client pays for any overnight accommodation.
--
Roland Perry

Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
 

On Thu, 18 Aug 2016 14:03:15 +0100
Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 13:06:19 on
Thu, 18 Aug 2016, Recliner remarked:

As a (formerly) truly self-employed person if I promised to attend at
a client's site all day, it wasn't expected that I could just take a
break whenever it suited me.

But didn't you get paid for the whole day, meaning that all your time
during that working day had been paid-for?

I've never specified how many hours a day, but typically I'd do about
13hrs a day, albeit to include commuting time if required. Normally the
client pays for any overnight accommodation.

13 hours a day? Sooner you than me.

--
Spud

Sadiq Khan and TfL on taxis and minicabs
 

Robin wrote:
On 18/08/2016 10:41, Recliner wrote:


a
truly self-employed person who can take a break whenever they like,


I think that's not a valid paraphrase of the Harvard professor or of UK
law. Eg I doubt locum doctors working in A&E under a contract for
services are free to take a break "whenever they like".

I also doubt that self-employed drivers with a "patch" can decide to
take some parcels but not others; or decide half-way through a day's
deliveries that they don't want to do any more work that day.

I'm not defending Uber but I do think much depends on the precise terms
of the Uber contract.

It seems that Uber has made more progress than I thought in solving the
issues with its drivers' contracts. It could be that within a few years
Uber won't have unhappy drivers:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/featur...month-is06r7on